The Sonic Future

http://nmaps.net/user/donfuy · Postby **Donfuy** » 2008.10.24 (15:51)

I've been thinking about this for a while.

We all know that Sonic's glory days have passed for a long time, and that Mario is still one of the best known characters in the world (and that his games ROCK).

Sonic's conversion from 2D from 3D wasn't happy, and the latest games (like the Sonic Riders or Sonic Secret Rings for Wii) just don't have as much fun as the 2D ones.

So, what do you think SEGA needs to do? What type of Sonic game you would like to see? Oh, and what do you think that sega WILL do?

Postby **Animator** » 2008.10.24 (21:45)

Switch to 2D, or even try and bring back the old style of the old games, and eliminate a few characters.

http://nmaps.net/user/jackass77 · Postby **jackass** » 2008.10.25 (00:15)

Well they are bringing out a new sonic for xbox 360, wii, and ps3 which will be using the old style scrolling screen .. but in 3d .. maybe that could help bring back the good old sonic ... i forget the name but ill get a link to a vid asap

EDIT: Sonic Unleashed is the name ... now theyres 4 vids so watch em all - http://www2.sega.com/gamesite/sonicunle ... videos.php

http://nmaps.net/user/Atilla · Postby **Atilla** » 2008.10.25 (01:10)

Mmm, I've heard about that. Apparently it deviates between classic platforming, which is good, and pitiful attempts to make it darker and edgier, which aren't. This is, of course, exactly the kind of thing which caused the decay of the series in the first place, along with painful attempts to be "hip".

Some people consider that Star Fox has suffered a similar (though less severe) decline since Star Fox Adventures, as the addition of Krystal to the cast immediately resulted in atrocious romantic subplots.

Postby **Animator** » 2008.10.25 (01:42)

Mmm, I've heard about that. Apparently it deviates between classic platforming, which is good, and pitiful attempts to make it darker and edgier, which aren't. This is, of course, exactly the kind of thing which caused the decay of the series in the first place, along with painful attempts to be "hip".

It was cutting edge how it already was. Giant robots and great bosses, and awesome graphics. If that's not cutting-edge, I don't know what is. (Refering to the past, that is. Sonic 3 and such.) The most cutting edge Sonic game (in older terms) that I've played was Sonic CD. Oooohhh, those were the days.

http://nmaps.net/user/Atilla · Postby **Atilla** » 2008.10.25 (02:56)

Er, that's not really what I was talking about. As the link explains, making something Darker and Edgier means trying to make something "gritty", "serious" and "more mature" by adding cynicism, violence, darker visuals, profanity, etc. If it's done badly, which it often is, it gets the same reception as the kid who thinks wearing sunglasses at all times will instantly make him look all tough and manly. Whether a game is cutting edge or not isn't related to how dark and edgy it's trying to be.

Also, this amuses me:

Postby **Animator** » 2008.10.25 (03:07)

Er, that's not really what I was talking about. As the link explains, taking something Darker and Edgier means trying to make something "gritty", "serious" and "more mature" by adding cynicism, violence, darker visuals, profanity, etc. If it's done badly, which it often is, it gets the same reception as the kid who thinks wearing sunglasses at all times will instantly make him look all tough and manly. Whether a game is cutting edge or not isn't related to how dark and edgy it's trying to be.

Oh. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'mma watch those Sonic Unleashed Videos.

http://nmaps.net/user/PALEMOON · Postby **PALEMOON** » 2008.10.25 (03:21)

what sega really needs
to do is make another 2d sonic complete with Genesis graphics ( much like capcom and megaman 9 )

all they'd need to do is make a really huge world full of all the good stuff from games 1-3 and S&K. fans everywhere would eat it up.

Postby **Luminaflare** » 2008.10.25 (15:35)

Ahhhh I grew up on sonic...

Memories...

http://nmaps.net/user/TheAdster · Postby Ad » 2008.10.25 (15:49)

They've got the engine, they just need to drop the fucking gimmicks. Who wants tilt controls, spiderman-esque fighting, or a bigass sword? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Oooh! And what PALEMOON said.

http://nmaps.net/user/donfuy · Postby **Donfuy** » 2008.10.25 (16:05)

A little side note: I'm impressed that even kids now having 6 year-old LOVE Sonic. Even if the game is A LOT older than them.
You can take two things out of this:
1st: The Sonic...umm...image is GREAT and AWESOME (yes, I think that the appearance of Sonic is better than Mario's, even if I think Mario as the best games out there)
2nd: The old Sonic games are FUN, even for today's...umm...standards (standards that I think that are a little distorted nowadays) IT's PURE ENJOYMENT!

Meh...2D was nice, but I don't see Sega passing to 2D again. And how would it pass to 2D? With the style like the SSBB? Mmm...

http://nmaps.net/user/Atilla · Postby **Atilla** » 2008.10.26 (04:15)

Sonic games for handhelds are still in 2D, and typically receive a better reception than the console titles. Also, Sonic Unleashed is partially in 2D, I believe.

http://nmaps.net/user/donfuy · Postby **Donfuy** » 2008.12.11 (02:24)

I was wrong. I was SO wrong.

I'm totally amazed. Totally.

Amazed. Amazed. Amazed.

Sonic and The Secret Rings. Amazing.

I bought it in second-hand for just 12,45€ (oh look, it's Sonic, why not? Let's find out what Sega has been doing).

So, the gameplay is awesome, after some slower tracks, the games gets faster and faster and faster. The soundtracks are great, the story is stupidly good (at first I was disappointed, really, I laughed when I saw a magic lamp in a Sonic's game), as it gets better and better (as everything in the game). The graphics are good (considering it's a Wii game).

The gameplay is almost 2D, which is nice.

Oh, and you can add "addons" to Sonic's ring.

Resuming, I'm fucking amazed. My arms end always in pain, specially in bosses (you press 2 to jump, and then, to attack an enemy, you have to push the Wiimote forwards really quickly. Result: in bosses, you can really harm your arms)

http://nmaps.net/user/Drathmoore · Postby **Drathmoore** » 2008.12.22 (19:40)

Well, in some areas Sonic is still good. And not all of the 3d games were bad, the 'Adventure' series was very good.

Unfortuantly, as said, Sega is trying to make the storyline too dramatic; of which seems to be an upshot for Unleashed as they've toned this down and given a more cartoon-ish story in some respects (and the comic relief Chip gives to the story is genius).

I like one of the ideas floating around some of the Sonic communities: take the 'Hedgehog Engine' and use it to make a Sonic 3 and Knuckles Remake. You have to admit that'd be an awesome idea, Sonic with the speedy levels, Knuckles with brawling platfrom levels (and instead of stretchy arms, he has a gliding and climbing mechanic)... etc.

http://nmaps.net/user/Guitar_Hero_Matt · Postby **MattKestrel** » 2008.12.22 (19:49)

What I don't get is why Sonic and Mario were ever expected to have an even chance in Mario and Sonic At The Olympic Games. Cmon, fat plumber versus supersonic hedgehog who can run on ceilings? Pfft.

Imo the series is in decline because virtually anyone with any good ideas left Sonic Team a long time ago. So they had to ham it all up to make up for this, and ultimately the series has shifted away from it's core ideals, which imo isnt a good thing

However, the new games seem to be learning from past mistakes and Im confident that Sonic And The Black Night has plenty of potential to turn this around.

Also, check out this completely seething review of Sonic Unleashed. Damn Pommies :P

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... -Unleashed

http://nmaps.net/user/donfuy · Postby **Donfuy** » 2008.12.22 (21:45)

that was freakin' HILARIOUS!

but he's just a "sonic in 3D" hater, as he classified Sonic and The Secret Rings as one of the horrendous sonic games.

Bah, I think that after I buy Super Mario Galaxy (that I've being postponing for ages) and Mario Kart Wii AND Okami, I'll buy Sonic Unleashed :P

http://nmaps.net/user/Atilla · Postby **Atilla** » 2008.12.23 (00:39)

GTM wrote:What I don't get is why Sonic and Mario were ever expected to have an even chance in Mario and Sonic At The Olympic Games. Cmon, fat plumber versus supersonic hedgehog who can run on ceilings? Pfft.

Mario would totally win the hammer throw. Also the triple jump.

Postby **Animator** » 2008.12.23 (06:29)

I saw that review just now. Hilarious stuff, but true. (Then again, I too, am a 3D sonic hater. Bite me.)

It also seems Yahtzee's trying to get a TV show going.

Postby **Luminaflare** » 2008.12.23 (11:50)

I played the demo of Sonic unleashed and found the running bit quite fun but the demo doesn't let you try the werehog so i'm still a bit on the fence with this.

http://nmaps.net/user/Drathmoore · Postby **Drathmoore** » 2008.12.26 (14:29)

Heheh, trust me, Unleashed is amazing!

I got the PS3 version just before christmas, and it is one hell of a game. Sonic is increadibly fast - using the boost you'll be going about as fast as the 'Mach speed' sections in Sonic '06. The Werehog is also very enjoyable, contrary to belief. The platforming could have been done slightly better, as at times it's a little confusing which way you're meant to jump, and you die. But other than that slight error, it's fine.

The framerate isn't really that smooth throughout however; something that really annoyed me. Sonic's day levels are fantastic; there are no flaws whatsoever. But the nighttime levels seem o slow down a little bit, and the animation starts to falter - especially in huge battles (and I mean huge, you could have around 30 enemies trying to attack you).

I'm far from finishing the game (I've just restored the third continent), so I'll be willing to review it if anyone wants me to when I've nearly finished it. And I can assure you it'll be much better than the IGN video review of the game (which was appualingly biased against Sonic).

http://nmaps.net/user/donfuy · Postby **Donfuy** » 2008.12.27 (21:59)

Uhmmm... Drathmoore? Have you played the Secret Rings?

I just wanted to know if the day part is as fast, fluent and awesome as the one in the Secret Rings.

http://nmaps.net/user/Drathmoore · Postby **Drathmoore** » 2008.12.27 (22:41)

Oh, believe me, it's uncomparable.

Which is now what I'm going to do. Yeah, I've played through Secret Rings, and it was awesome. But let's see.

Fast: A lot faster. A lot faster. Right from the off, Sonic's speed is quite good. Put the boost on top of that, and you're going to struggle to get through levels at that speed if you've got reactions like mine. SEGA has boasted they can get Sonic up to 300mph (of which I can't really confirm, as I haven't maxed out his speed).

As I just pointed out, like SatSR you can level up Sonic's speed (although the leveling system is much better in Unleashed. Well, you can only level up seven attributes, of which only two belong to daytime Sonic (which are Speed and Ring Energy)). And once you get the speed level quite high, you'll be blazing through levels. SEGA have also boasted that levels could be up to 6 miles long, of which you'll have to get through in around 4 minutes if you want those S-Ranks.

Fluency: Unleashed is a hell of a lot more fluent than SatSR in my opinion. The 3d sections will be gone in seconds (via boost), whereas the 2d sections are as fluent as the original MegaDrive games themselves. Okay, there are a few frame rate issues here and there, if you mean that sort of fluency, but hey, that mainly applies to the Hub Worlds, which aren't in the Wii version (and as you want to compare it to Secret Rings, I'm assuming you want to know about the Wii version). As in fluency of story line, Unleashed is better here as well (then again, Secret Rings didn't really adhear to the story line. I think I got the second and third World Rings before I got the first one...). It forces you to do certain stages in order, with extra ones on the side when you collect enough sun/moon medals. But, the fluency is let down a bit here as you may reach a level, only to find you need to go back through the over levels to collect more medals (which, when it comes to the day stages, I don't mind at all).

Awesomeness: Undescribable. The day levels are the best bit about the game. I find myself just playing through the day stages I've already done again and again to try and improve my times. Personally, the one way they could have made the game even more awesome was to bring back what everybody wants: Super Sonic in-game (as opposed to the final boss. I haven't played the final boss yet, but I can already tell you that between PS3/Xbox 360 and Wii/PS2, they are completely different. Especially the Super Sonic parts.

Overall though, the day stages are awesome. In a sense, the 3d parts are a lot like Secret Rings (although in this case you're not being forced forwands, but you will be always moving/boosting forwards. I cannot see why anybody wouldn't like the day stages.

http://nmaps.net/user/donfuy · Postby **Donfuy** » 2008.12.27 (22:50)

I am afraid because:
1.This game, unlike Sonic and The Secret Rings, Unleashed hasn't been made only for the Wii, but for all the gaming platforms, meaning the controls should be different and, as PS3 and XBOX360 are more powerful in terms of graphics, they just "thrown" a Wii version out of the other consoles versions.

2. The "night" part. As Sonic's all about speed, I'm relutant to accept a kinda slow-mo action.

http://nmaps.net/user/Guitar_Hero_Matt · Postby **MattKestrel** » 2008.12.28 (09:19)

Completely agree. For taking the game back to its roots, giving a character elastic arms and turning him into the equivalent of Wario wasnt what I had in mind.

Sonic and the Black Knight ftw!

http://nmaps.net/user/Drathmoore · Postby **Drathmoore** » 2008.12.28 (11:28)

Donfuy wrote:I am afraid because:
1.This game, unlike Sonic and The Secret Rings, Unleashed hasn't been made only for the Wii, but for all the gaming platforms, meaning the controls should be different and, as PS3 and XBOX360 are more powerful in terms of graphics, they just "thrown" a Wii version out of the other consoles versions.

2. The "night" part. As Sonic's all about speed, I'm relutant to accept a kinda slow-mo action.

Well, 1 is a good point. Originally the game was only being made for Xbox 360 and PS3, but they later decided to include other versions. As a consequence, the Wii and PS2 versions had less development time, thus the lack of a proper Mazuri and any Empire City, the Wii and PS2 not taking advantage of the 'Hegehog Engine' (although that might be due to the lack of processing power on the consoles). and the huge overuse of the Werehog.
But they haven't "thrown" out a Wii version. When you get down to it, they're completely different games. The day levels (for Wii and PS2) were designed by Dimps - who were the designers of the Sonic Rush series - as opposed to SEGA, and are completely different. And the Werehog levels, as opposed to one bulk level on the Xbox and Playstation, they're short, 5 minute segments. But, they normally have around three or four Werehog levels whereas they have one Sonic level per area.

But what GTM said about the strecthy arms. SEGA could really put that to use. I may be going slightly off topic here, but what if they take the arm mechanics and make a Ristar remake/sequel.?

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