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Hey!

Looking back at old 1.4 rankings is something that has fascinated many highscorers, so I've decide to get in early for the N++ rankings.

N++ has only been out for less than a day, and there are still many individual levels that haven't got any highscores on them yet.
Like the early days of 1.4, we don't (as far as we know, anyway) have a program to automatically harvest statistics from the N++ boards.

I was thinking that, until such a program is made, I will be happy to manually sift through the boards and make a tally of all the 0ths at the end of each week. I will leave top-20 stats off the charts until such time that a program is made to automate this process. Moreover, top-20s are going to be trivial to get for the first few weeks at least.
I have also attached a poll to help us decide the fairest way of handling tied 0ths.

I believe 0ths should be shared as long as the list is always ordered by datetime, with the earliest being at the top of the list. There's no point in penalising people for being late to the party. I liked the way NReality's highscores worked, whereby the users who achieved a 0th ended up with a little * by their result. This * signifies that they were the first person to achieve the 0th on a level which already has 20 other submitted scores.

Code: Select all

*0th - Player 1 - 99.950
=0th - Player 2 - 99.950
2nd - Player 3 - 99.900
...

If Player 4 then comes along and beats Player 1 and Player 2's score, the leaderboards would then look like this:

Code: Select all

*0th - Player 4 - 100.000
*1st - Player 1 - 99.950
1st - Player 2 - 99.950
3rd - Player 3 - 99.900

Then as more users beat Player 1's run, there's still some indication that they were once the record holder:

Code: Select all

*0th - Player 4 - 100.000
=0th - Player 5 - 100.000
=0th - Player 6 - 100.000
=0th - Player 7 - 100.000
=0th - Player 8 - 100.000
*5th - Player 1 - 99.950
5th - Player 2 - 99.950
7th - Player 3 - 99.900

Equally if they then tied the record, the * would still persist:

Code: Select all

*0th - Player 4 - 100.000
=0th - Player 5 - 100.000
=0th - Player 6 - 100.000
=0th - Player 7 - 100.000
=0th - Player 8 - 100.000
=0th - Player 2 - 100.000
*=0th - Player 1 - 100.000
7th - Player 3 - 99.900

This way you can display stats like *0ths vs. =0ths (record setter vs. record equaller); =*0ths (previous record setter who has gone on to equal a newer record) vs. >*1sts (previous record setter).

I've got to be honest, while that system is functionally sound, it does detract a little from the minimalist aesthetic that Mare and Raigan are going for. Maybe some kind of timestamp for the run upon viewing would be cool.

For the moment, there's a bug that if you've tied (any score, doesn't have to be a 0th) and then subsequently tie your own score, you drop to the end of the list of ties. Seems like it re-submits your score to the server if you tie or beat your best, not only if you beat it. And since it re-submits, you're now the most recent with that score and deserve to be at the end of the list of ties. So for the moment, I say count all ties of a 0th, regardless of being in the top20 on the global list. Otherwise it severely dis-incentivizes the option to try and improve a frame-war level when you've already tied 0th, especially if you were the first to set that score.

golf wrote:For the moment, there's a bug that if you've tied (any score, doesn't have to be a 0th) and then subsequently tie your own score, you drop to the end of the list of ties. Seems like it re-submits your score to the server if you tie or beat your best, not only if you beat it. And since it re-submits, you're now the most recent with that score and deserve to be at the end of the list of ties. So for the moment, I say count all ties of a 0th, regardless of being in the top20 on the global list. Otherwise it severely dis-incentivizes the option to try and improve a frame-war level when you've already tied 0th, especially if you were the first to set that score.

Interesting... Please report the bug if you haven't already. Hopefully the server keeps a record of previous scores so they can be restored; if not, then this is quite urgent.

Makes much more sense to me if the last person to get the highscore goes to the top that way everyone always has a shot at taking 0th and it can be taken back and fought over.

Rivet wrote:Makes much more sense to me if the last person to get the highscore goes to the top that way everyone always has a shot at taking 0th and it can be taken back and fought over.

This makes exactly zero sense - it would either lead to an infinite loop where everyone's playing the same level getting the same score over and over just to hold the 0th for two seconds, or (more likely) make competition on maxable levels completely disappear. Either way is ridiculous.

MiBeM wrote:
Rivet wrote:Makes much more sense to me if the last person to get the highscore goes to the top that way everyone always has a shot at taking 0th and it can be taken back and fought over.
This makes exactly zero sense - it would either lead to an infinite loop where everyone's playing the same level getting the same score over and over just to hold the 0th for two seconds, or (more likely) make competition on maxable levels completely disappear. Either way is ridiculous.

Would you not agree there should be a set of rules or conditions that should be met?
Those including; nobody should be locked out of shooting for top 0th at any time.

If the first highscorer is locked in at the top with his maxed run there's no point in anybody trying to tie it, seems to me like that's the way that kills the map.. Unless people want immortalization for maxing a level first which does make sense but it still ends any further competition.

Rivet, did you just get concussed? You seem to be making less sense the more you speak. Also, you used a semicolon where you should've used a colon, which only serves to lend support to my concussion theory.

I agree with ska. The simplicity of the current system is appealing, especially to the people actually competing for world records. In the event of a tie, the player with the earliest time wins.

Maybe the following scenario will help explain:

Two friends (players 1 and 2) are tied with top scores on a level. They both agree, as a friendly competition, to try and shave yet another frame off of their times, starting at noon on an upcoming Saturday. The competition begins. After 20 minutes, player 1 finally manages to shave another frame from the time, setting a new world record and earning 0th place! 5 minutes later, player 2 also shaves a frame off of their personal best, tying the new world record set by player 1.

Who are you more impressed with in that story? I'm more impressed with player 1. That's why player 1 should maintain the 0th score, as he does in the current implementation of the leaderboards.

The only issue with the current implementation is the bug mentioned earlier. I did mention this bug in another thread several months ago but nothing has been done about thus far.

Mike wrote:Who are you more impressed with in that story?

Neither - they both did the exact same thing in very nearly the same amount of time. This story did little to illustrate any point. I do agree, however, that the 0th should be given to the first player to achieve it, because being the first to achieve a perfect score is awesome and should be acknowledged but mostly for practical reasons - otherwise we would end up with potentially hundreds of players having a few 0ths from the easily maxable levels and that would be a huge pain to keep track of.

Tied scores should be accepted for everyone, specially in a game in which a lot of potentially maxable levels have been included, contrary to the classic 1.4 version. Not including ties, would discourage completist highscorers *cough cough*

MiBeM wrote:I do agree, however, that the 0th should be given to the first player to achieve it, because being the first to achieve a perfect score is awesome and should be acknowledged but mostly for practical reasons

I think you actually agree entirely with my point. If the inaugural best time maintains 0th but "mostly" for practical reasons, what are the rest of the reasons? It sounds like you think it is because being the first to achieve the best time is "awesome and should be acknowledged". If that's not the case, then you shouldn't have a problem with Rivet's suggestion that the most recent top run should be awarded 0th place. Or at least, you should have no preference either way. Both systems are just as practical.

Mike wrote:I think you actually agree entirely with my point.

I do. I just thought the story was extremely bad at illustrating said point.

When you start mantaining the rankings (if you have the intention to) it would be neat if you kept the latest rankings on the first post too, so that people don't have to dive to the last post to see them.

Has progress on NHigh++ stalled? If so, I will initiate a manual calculation.

Nope it hasn't, I just don't have much time, but I don't think I'm far from an initial release. But the suggestion still stands!

Due to my own current schedule, I will have to pass. In any case, it shouldn't be too much of an issue, since some of the levels still don't have level scores yet. I think once every level has a level score recorded, a ranking can be produced.

I recently finished porting NHigh to N++, but since I'm recycling NHigh interface, many functions have yet to be adapted to the new format. Some are already working, and I present you the result of them (as of yesterday). These include all solo levels and episodes (Intro, N++, Legacy, Secret), in total there's 1710 leaderboards to analyze. It's including ties for 0ths.

The N++ Highscore Rankings #1 [26/Oct/2016] (Click on the titles)

Total 0th Rankings

0 EddyMataGallos - 559
1 jp27ace - 366
2 xela - 286
3 Borlin - 114
4 Nahoj - 50
5 MrSprucetree - 48
6 natesly - 47
7 Sorglos - 38
8 Alex - 36
9 TOAST BUSTERS - 34
10 oxygen_ - 30
11 cj7000 - 23
12 snowicetiger - 20
13 shadowpollo853 - 17
- Mole - 17
15 golfkid - 16
- Xsczo - 16
17 ... - 15
18 egahbh - 12
19 goomba - 11

Level 0th Rankings

0 EddyMataGallos - 541
1 jp27ace - 207
2 xela - 201
3 Borlin - 97
4 Nahoj - 49
5 natesly - 47
6 Sorglos - 37
7 Alex - 31
8 TOAST BUSTERS - 30
9 oxygen_ - 27
10 cj7000 - 23
11 MrSprucetree - 22
12 snowicetiger - 20
13 golfkid - 16
- Xsczo - 16
- Mole - 16
16 ... - 15
17 goomba - 10
18 muratcantonta - 9
- egahbh - 9
- dot one - 9

Episode 0th Rankings

0 jp27ace - 159
1 xela - 42
2 shadowpollo853 - 17
- EddyMataGallos - 17
4 Alex - 5
5 scottianesta - 4
- The Veldt - 4
- Borlin - 4
8 Pan - 3
- 18 Rabbit - 3
10 frank.lif - 1
- Zugz - 1
- TOAST BUSTERS - 1
- Sorglos - 1
- King Mamba 48 - 1
- Georgie Pi - 1
- ChrisS97 - 1
- 2Shirt - 1

Top-20 Rankings

0 xela - 1091
1 Borlin - 915
2 jp27ace - 866
3 egahbh - 721
4 natesly - 715
5 Nahoj - 688
6 EddyMataGallos - 679
7 Mole - 543
8 oxygen_ - 538
9 MrSprucetree - 507
10 Bumperguard - 446
11 muratcantonta - 414
12 goomba - 373
13 TOAST BUSTERS - 341
14 golfkid - 313
15 ibcamwhobu - 301
16 Sorglos - 293
17 Ðŷl·λŋ - 279
18 absurdistlover - 260
19 shomman - 255

Level Top-20 Rankings

0 Borlin - 721
1 xela - 714
2 natesly - 711
3 Nahoj - 664
4 EddyMataGallos - 625
5 jp27ace - 601
6 egahbh - 599
7 oxygen_ - 441
8 Bumperguard - 399
9 Mole - 366
10 goomba - 341
11 MrSprucetree - 327
12 muratcantonta - 326
13 Sorglos - 283
14 TOAST BUSTERS - 224
15 shomman - 218
16 Ðŷl·λŋ - 212
17 Something - 210
18 esperanza - 203
19 overlordlork - 199

Episode Top-20 Rankings

0 jp27ace - 265
1 xela - 263
2 absurdistlover - 216
3 golfkid - 203
4 Mole - 159
5 Xsczo - 119
6 shadowpollo853 - 110
7 TOAST BUSTERS - 108
8 Andreas - 105
9 frank.lif - 100
10 18 Rabbit - 83
11 Borlin - 80
12 ULP#Kvasir - 70
- Duschlampe - 70
- ... - 70
15 ChrisS97 - 67
16 Psych - 66
- MrSprucetree - 66
18 ThoseDarnAssassins - 65
19 OatBran - 63

Top-10 Rankings

0 xela - 918
1 jp27ace - 764
2 Borlin - 757
3 EddyMataGallos - 673
4 Nahoj - 571
5 natesly - 553
6 egahbh - 543
7 MrSprucetree - 393
8 oxygen_ - 381
9 Mole - 323
10 Bumperguard - 283
11 muratcantonta - 277
12 Sorglos - 263
13 golfkid - 252
14 TOAST BUSTERS - 218
15 goomba - 216
16 absurdistlover - 185
17 shomman - 175
18 esperanza - 166
19 cj7000 - 161

Top-5 Rankings

0 xela - 739
1 jp27ace - 698
2 EddyMataGallos - 658
3 Borlin - 574
4 Nahoj - 371
5 natesly - 364
6 egahbh - 297
7 oxygen_ - 260
8 MrSprucetree - 259
9 Sorglos - 201
10 Mole - 171
11 golfkid - 157
12 muratcantonta - 136
13 Bumperguard - 132
14 TOAST BUSTERS - 120
15 goomba - 109
16 cj7000 - 106
17 Alex - 97
18 esperanza - 94
19 Xsczo - 93

Total Point Rankings

0 xela - 17272
1 jp27ace - 14873
2 Borlin - 13875
3 EddyMataGallos - 13272
4 Nahoj - 10073
5 natesly - 10063
6 egahbh - 9558
7 MrSprucetree - 7267
8 oxygen_ - 7181
9 Mole - 6317
10 Bumperguard - 5259
11 muratcantonta - 5082
12 Sorglos - 4753
13 golfkid - 4459
14 goomba - 4257
15 TOAST BUSTERS - 4192
16 absurdistlover - 3294
17 esperanza - 3191
18 shomman - 3181
19 ibcamwhobu - 3035

Level Point Rankings

0 EddyMataGallos - 12360
1 Borlin - 11053
2 xela - 10845
3 natesly - 10019
4 Nahoj - 9791
5 jp27ace - 9721
6 egahbh - 7908
7 oxygen_ - 6129
8 MrSprucetree - 4742
9 Bumperguard - 4734
10 Sorglos - 4643
11 muratcantonta - 4135
12 goomba - 3903
13 Mole - 3775
14 TOAST BUSTERS - 3023
15 shomman - 2866
16 esperanza - 2761
17 overlordlork - 2419
18 cj7000 - 2361
19 Something - 2300

Episode Point Rankings

0 jp27ace - 5152
1 xela - 4375
2 golfkid - 2739
3 absurdistlover - 2691
4 Mole - 2288
5 shadowpollo853 - 1710
6 18 Rabbit - 1342
7 frank.lif - 1074
8 Andreas - 1050
9 Xsczo - 1040
10 TOAST BUSTERS - 1037
11 Borlin - 926
12 ChrisS97 - 917
13 EddyMataGallos - 873
14 OatBran - 765
15 ... - 758
16 scottianesta - 756
17 Pan - 651
18 Duschlampe - 565
19 crypticc62 - 564

Average Point Rankings

0 EddyMataGallos - 19.546
1 scottm - 17.762
2 jp27ace - 17.174
3 Sorglos - 16.222
4 18 Rabbit - 16.131
5 Zugz - 16.060
6 xela - 15.831
7 k13 - 15.645
8 Alex - 15.590
9 shadowpollo853 - 15.545
10 Borlin - 15.164
11 The Veldt - 15.024
12 cj7000 - 14.865
13 Nahoj - 14.641
14 scottianesta - 14.538
15 snowicetiger - 14.410
16 MrSprucetree - 14.333
17 HoodyCore - 14.318
18 golfkid - 14.246
19 dot one - 14.193

Community Total Scores

Community Total Level Score: 165573.471 (45:59:33.471)
Community Total Episode Score: 71836.964 (19:57:16.964)

Difference between both : -1663.493 (-1:32:16.507)

As you can see, episodes are still cleaner that levels.

Awesome.
Maybe I'll get back into some highscoring, if Metanet puts in level scores saving when you do ep runs.
this is great, hopefully this can bring some n++ people to these forums.

shomman wrote:Awesome.
Maybe I'll get back into some highscoring, if Metanet puts in level scores saving when you do ep runs.
this is great, hopefully this can bring some n++ people to these forums.

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that they made a Halloween update but didn't get around to fixing a crucial flaw in the highscoring system. I will probably only complete the game once the glitch has been patched.

Edit: Great work, Ed. I'm glad you finally figured it out.

Edit 2: I know this is borderline pedantic, but shouldn't it be "Total 0th Ranking" (without the 's')? Also, shouldn't it be Total Points Ranking, Average Points Ranking, etc.?

It has been a while and the highscoring community has progressed quite well. Therefore let's do

The N++ Highscore Rankings #2 [4/Feb/2017] (Click on the titles)

Total 0th Rankings

0 xela - 579
1 jp27ace - 457
2 EddyMataGallos - 421
3 Borlin - 105
4 TOAST BUSTERS - 69
5 Alex - 23
6 golfkid - 21
7 Mole - 20
8 Sorglos - 19
- Nahoj - 19
10 MrSprucetree - 17
11 shadowpollo853 - 16
- overlordlork - 16
13 snowicetiger - 15
14 Xsczo - 11
15 Squidclaw - 10
16 drobinson94 - 9
- High Priest o the Righteous Feed - 9
- Duschlampe - 9
19 dot one - 8

Level 0th Rankings

0 xela - 423
1 EddyMataGallos - 406
2 jp27ace - 342
3 Borlin - 87
4 TOAST BUSTERS - 59
5 Alex - 22
6 golfkid - 20
7 Sorglos - 19
- Nahoj - 19
9 overlordlork - 16
10 snowicetiger - 15
11 Mole - 13
12 Xsczo - 11
13 Squidclaw - 10
- MrSprucetree - 10
15 High Priest o the Righteous Feed - 9
16 dot one - 8
17 glib_jase - 7
- cj7000 - 7
- Xando Toaster - 7

Episode 0th Rankings

0 jp27ace - 109
1 xela - 88
2 shadowpollo853 - 16
3 EddyMataGallos - 15
4 Borlin - 12
5 Kronogenics - 6
6 drobinson94 - 4
7 scottianesta - 2
- crypticc62 - 2
- TOAST BUSTERS - 2
- Pan - 2
11 golfkid - 1
- fiordhraoi - 1
- Zugz - 1
- The Veldt - 1
- Line Rider 0 - 1
- King Mamba 48 - 1
- Alex - 1
- 18 Rabbit - 1

Top-20 Rankings

0 xela - 1269
1 jp27ace - 987
2 Borlin - 945
3 Muzgrob - 745
4 TOAST BUSTERS - 720
5 EddyMataGallos - 676
6 natesly - 566
7 egahbh - 503
8 muratcantonta - 496
9 Nahoj - 493
10 oxygen_ - 478
11 Mole - 467
12 Bumperguard - 440
13 MrSprucetree - 439
14 golfkid - 425
15 w3stracer - 368
16 overlordlork - 350
17 ibcamwhobu - 346
18 ShizZ - 332
19 peterwear - 307

Level Top-20 Rankings

0 xela - 900
1 jp27ace - 710
2 Borlin - 696
3 Muzgrob - 625
- EddyMataGallos - 625
5 natesly - 563
6 TOAST BUSTERS - 552
7 Nahoj - 476
8 oxygen_ - 419
9 egahbh - 402
10 Bumperguard - 375
11 muratcantonta - 371
12 w3stracer - 355
13 ShizZ - 329
14 peterwear - 305
15 overlordlork - 302
16 Talz - 287
17 aiolos - 284
18 Sorglos - 274
19 mennphis - 272

Episode Top-20 Rankings

0 jp27ace - 266
1 xela - 255
2 shadowpollo853 - 203
3 golfkid - 193
4 absurdistlover - 186
5 Mole - 150
6 scottianesta - 141
7 Borlin - 137
8 ibcamwhobu - 134
9 frank.lif - 93
10 Plethora - 89
11 Xando Toaster - 84
12 crypticc62 - 83
13 18 Rabbit - 81
14 goshimuk - 80
15 Msyjsm - 78
16 sicco - 71
17 TOAST BUSTERS - 69
18 Xsczo - 66
- Andreas - 66

Top-10 Rankings

0 xela - 1191
1 jp27ace - 954
2 Borlin - 718
3 EddyMataGallos - 668
4 TOAST BUSTERS - 517
5 Muzgrob - 416
6 natesly - 372
7 golfkid - 336
8 Mole - 324
9 oxygen_ - 311
10 Nahoj - 291
11 MrSprucetree - 285
12 muratcantonta - 267
13 Sorglos - 244
14 overlordlork - 233
15 egahbh - 224
16 cj7000 - 218
17 ibcamwhobu - 194
18 sicco - 180
19 Talz - 171

Top-5 Rankings

0 xela - 1050
1 jp27ace - 911
2 EddyMataGallos - 642
3 Borlin - 451
4 TOAST BUSTERS - 314
5 golfkid - 191
- Mole - 191
7 Muzgrob - 183
8 oxygen_ - 165
9 MrSprucetree - 160
10 natesly - 159
11 Sorglos - 153
12 cj7000 - 144
13 Nahoj - 139
14 Alex - 118
15 sicco - 111
16 glib_jase - 103
17 muratcantonta - 97
18 overlordlork - 90
19 shadowpollo853 - 84

Total Point Rankings

0 xela - 22538
1 jp27ace - 18331
2 Borlin - 13272
3 EddyMataGallos - 12922
4 TOAST BUSTERS - 9610
5 Muzgrob - 8138
6 natesly - 6623
7 Mole - 5933
8 oxygen_ - 5864
9 golfkid - 5858
10 Nahoj - 5732
11 MrSprucetree - 5478
12 muratcantonta - 5274
13 egahbh - 4775
14 Sorglos - 4282
15 overlordlork - 4233
16 cj7000 - 3946
17 Bumperguard - 3855
18 ibcamwhobu - 3796
19 Talz - 3347

Level Point Rankings

0 xela - 16117
1 jp27ace - 13017
2 EddyMataGallos - 12080
3 Borlin - 9963
4 TOAST BUSTERS - 7639
5 Muzgrob - 7099
6 natesly - 6606
7 Nahoj - 5512
8 oxygen_ - 5207
9 Sorglos - 4203
10 muratcantonta - 4134
11 egahbh - 3877
12 overlordlork - 3702
13 cj7000 - 3685
14 Bumperguard - 3296
15 Talz - 3276
16 ShizZ - 3251
17 golfkid - 3225
18 MrSprucetree - 3146
19 aiolos - 2721

Episode Point Rankings

0 jp27ace - 5102
1 xela - 4327
2 shadowpollo853 - 2794
3 golfkid - 2426
4 scottianesta - 2007
5 Mole - 1973
6 absurdistlover - 1924
7 Borlin - 1615
8 ibcamwhobu - 1299
9 18 Rabbit - 1203
10 goshimuk - 1067
11 crypticc62 - 952
12 frank.lif - 858
13 ChrisS97 - 821
14 drobinson94 - 811
15 EddyMataGallos - 804
16 Xando Toaster - 783
17 Plethora - 779
18 sicco - 756
19 Msyjsm - 672

Average Point Rankings

0 EddyMataGallos - 19.115
1 jp27ace - 18.572
2 xela - 17.760
3 drobinson94 - 16.181
4 Zugz - 15.826
5 Alex - 15.432
6 Sorglos - 15.238
7 k13 - 15.070
8 dot one - 14.958
9 18 Rabbit - 14.817
10 scottm - 14.574
11 The Veldt - 14.538
12 glib_jase - 14.515
13 scottianesta - 14.234
14 snowicetiger - 14.179
15 goshimuk - 14.161
16 Borlin - 14.044
17 sicco - 13.960
18 golfkid - 13.784
19 cj7000 - 13.749

Community Total Scores

Community Total Level Score: 169186.253 (46:59:46.253)
Community Total Episode Score: 77414.831 (21:30:14.831)

Difference between both : -3628.578 (-2:59:31.422)

How come I have 20 total 0ths, but only 13 level 0ths and no episode 0ths? Are secret levels not counted for levels?

This is the list of your 0th scores:

List of 0th scores for Mole:

00-2 - 240.283
06-4 - 99.517
07-4 - 102.067
10-1 - 116.050
10-2 - 98.100
10-3 - 98.733
20-1 - 119.250
21-1 - 117.067
60-3 - 92.383
81-0 - 98.283
99-4 - 96.333
114-2 - 98.250
Secret-3 - 308.333
Secret-40 - 260.333
Secret-42 - 66.017
Secret-48 - 275.100
Secret-52 - 115.417
Secret-62 - 135.433
Secret-106 - 117.050
Secret-111 - 135.900

Total: 20 0th scores

It seems that secret levels are not counted as levels, but it is still strange that you have 12 and it shows 13 level 0ths.

yay xela is back as the top 0th player :)

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