Metanet Forums

Tell me what you guys think. Am I right, is atob right, or are we both right?

atob's pm

Your reviews are of an increasingly low standard.

The last two (the current and the one I deleted), would certainly not have gained you the position had you used them for your application. The writing is messy and the sentence structure is difficult to read. They're certainly not up to the standard I expect.

http://nmaps.net/50475
error: 'becuase'

The one I deleted had two spelling errors, too.

Aside from the fact that I find your writing style lacking, If you can't be bothered to check for such obvious errors, then I really don't see how you're qualified to write reviews.

I'll be more than happy to reinstate you if you can offer me a couple more reviews, well written and without errors. Use an online spell checker if you're really unsure.

My reply

First things first: Do not take any of what I am about to say as though I don't respect you, because I do. I take pride in the fact that I am the kind of person who tells it like it is, and I don't want you to take any of this personally, and lash out at me, because that’s not this messages intention at all.

If you have a problem with me, just tell me. It is rather unprofessional of someone to just delete another’s work, especially for something as trivial as one or two spelling errors. I work hard on all my reviews, and I take offense to you thinking otherwise, and I do proofread them with great detail, part of which relies of asking for second and third opinions from the people of IRC.

The appropriate response to seeing a spelling mistake in a review which had been there for more than a week would be to tell me about it. Be straight with me man; don't just delete my account over trivial reasons. Part of being an admin of a popular website is to be a diplomatic person, not just to say, "Hey I'm the only active guy in power, I should just go on a power trip." I would think that you would say, this is A B and C, fix, or go. You even said yourself, no bullying or aggressive behavior. You’re really living up to that very well.

My writing style is my writing style; I checked with both RT and KA, about their reviews, they both said that they liked it. Both of them, and I really think that speaks for something. If I miss one or two spelling mistakes, there are heavier issues to be worried about. I can see you getting disappointed in that, but that warrants nothing more than a discussion on the review. We are all with Metanet to get something out of it, I get satisfaction of being a respectable member of the community, and part of the big picture. I contribute where I can, and if you just want to be the bully of Metanet that is fine, but don't drag me down with you.

Personally, I think what you did was underhand and that you should get a slap on the wrist, it was not the way to handle this situation at all.

-kk

Tell me what you think, should I remain removed of the position, or do you guys like me there and think I oughtta be reinstated? Are my mistakes forgivable, or am I just so bad that you can't even look my work with scoffing?

kkstrong wrote:
Tell me what you think, should I remain removed of the position, or do you guys like me there and think I oughtta be reinstated? Are my mistakes forgivable, or am I just so bad that you can't even look my work with scoffing?

That was almost like that Puss in Boots moment in Shrek. Ahhh almost heart warming.
I actually like your style of reviews, not as "pizzazz-ful" < that's not a word, as other reviews, but it more-or-less features almost exactly what your average NUMA member would think. Without reading your reviews, and after playing the maps, I can proudly say that your words fall out of my mouth. And I really like that, that someone would be able to know what others would think, and showcase the map in the sense, versus the descriptive reviews that are tributes to the map as sacrifices to the Aztecs.

I think that atob is right, when comes to minor grammar/spelling problems and that those should be fixed beforehand, but you're right in your statement of just telling you about it rather than (abusing?) power.

Now, no disrespect to neither of you.

i thought PM's were personal :/

this might sound stupid, but why can't moderators edit the posts or run them by another reviewer for proofing?

Isn't my choice if I keep /my/ removal of power a secret or not?

Yeah, I actually dispise most features that have some sort of gimic to it.

I haven't been on numa for ages, and so haven't seen these reviews, but overall your writing is reasonable.

*Agrees with atob*

Hmmm...there's something I don't really like about that review, and I can't seem to pinpoint it. It seems to be lacking in some way...but then again, I think all of those reviews are somewhat pretentious. Meh.

All the reviewers are supposed to have an 'exceptional grasp of the written word'. That does include technical areas like grammar and spelling. When you proofread, you should really pick up on any of those spelling errors, particularly because you're typing on a computer. It only takes a couple of seconds to run a spell check, or you can even install one of those dictionary add-ons. There's really no excuse for those type of mistakes on the Internet. You have plenty of resources to aid you in that department.

That said, removing your status was unwarranted. A PM discussing the quality of your reviews would have sufficed.

KK, this isn't a matter for public debate.

You do not have a right to a reviewer position, it's a privilege set to a standard that (lately) you've been falling short of.

There is nothing absolute about the revoke, and I've already told you what you can do to be reinstated as a reviewer. Drop this petty little beef and get on with it.

I'd say you're both right, I some respects.

atob, you are most certainly right that letting small spelling mistakes through is lazy and not the level of writeing reviewers should be at, but mistakes happen, and goodness knows there have been a few that got away from me. Look, I don't particularly like kk, but I think his reviews are fairly good, (thought nowhere NEAR mine *preen*) and he really doesn't deserve to have his position taken away.

kk, you really should take more time to find the aforementioned mistakes; they belittle us reviewers as a group. But if the authors of the maps approve of the review, then I'd say that indicates that you are quite up to snuff for Featuring, and you really deserve to continue. I don't always much like your reviews, though, so I really think you could do better on them. I wish you'd stop putting the whole thing in a hard-to-read chunk. You should have your status back, but perhaps with a warning that if you don't spell-check, you'll be back out before you can say "becuase."

Okay, that's my four cents. Do with it as you will.

First off, isn't review-editing possible? If not, why not? o_O

I think that atob's decision to remove kk's status was - well, it was his decision. I think you may just have to come to terms with that, to begin with. I'm not saying you should lie down and take it up the ass, just don't go rebelling against him quite yet - try to have a reasonable, *private* discussion with him about the whole thing, and that would probably settle any serious problems you may seem to have. Should that have failed, maybe just have a quiet word with another mod, asking for a second opinion, perhaps, rather than turning it into a community debate.

That saiiiiiid, I don't really think you should've been disabled like that. I think you're right when you say that atob should probably have approached you first. We don't need to be some sort of cutthroat organisation here, and we do have to keep in mind that no matter how professional we may try to be, in the end these reviews are really just being done for our somewhat small and humble community.

Absolutely, you should try to keep the reviews of as high a quality as possible, considering that your ability to mould the English language into whatever 100-word-masterpiece you see fit is what presumably got you there in the first place. But there's no real need to take it to as extreme levels as immediate demotion like that.

But it really just goes back to the first point, from there. It was atob's decision, and it was by no means a horribly wrong one. I think we all need to just relaaaaaaaaaaaax when we get to situations like this around here.

Spawn of Yanni wrote:First off, isn't review-editing possible? If not, why not? o_O

I think that atob's decision to remove kk's status was - well, it was his decision. I think you may just have to come to terms with that, to begin with. I'm not saying you should lie down and take it up the ass, just don't go rebelling against him quite yet - try to have a reasonable, *private* discussion with him about the whole thing, and that would probably settle any serious problems you may seem to have. Should that have failed, maybe just have a quiet word with another mod, asking for a second opinion, perhaps, rather than turning it into a community debate.

That saiiiiiid, I don't really think you should've been disabled like that. I think you're right when you say that atob should probably have approached you first. We don't need to be some sort of cutthroat organisation here, and we do have to keep in mind that no matter how professional we may try to be, in the end these reviews are really just being done for our somewhat small and humble community.

Absolutely, you should try to keep the reviews of as high a quality as possible, considering that your ability to mould the English language into whatever 100-word-masterpiece you see fit is what presumably got you there in the first place. But there's no real need to take it to as extreme levels as immediate demotion like that.

But it really just goes back to the first point, from there. It was atob's decision, and it was by no means a horribly wrong one. I think we all need to just relaaaaaaaaaaaax when we get to situations like this around here.

Reviewing editing is completely possible, there is a button near the 'report abuse' one that you use to review maps. Once you have reviewed it, the button will change to 'edit review'.

Well, I checked mine before-hand and then re-read them after. Not that they were any good.

Mean edit that may be unnecassery (or however you spell it): Don't much like atob anyway, he is mean!

In recent threads about inactive and low quality reviewers, you've all expressed wishes for the process to be cleaned up. That's what I'm doing.

A little box was unchecked in kk's profile, that's all. If he re-applies with some quality reviews proving to me that he can keep up to the standard again (his early reviews are fine), the little box will be checked again. This is being taken way out of proportion.

Just to be clear, this has nothing to do with punishment. It's about efficiency. Consider it an effective means to keep the reviews up to standard. A mere pm wouldn't have been as effective as a suspension like this. This process will also separate those who really care about the position (as kk does, clearly), from those who don't really care enough to put the effort in to reform.

As I said, there's nothing absolute about that little box being unchecked.

This could of been a whole lot simpler; there was no need to for kk to blow a load of self-righteous guff in public.

atob, verbal warnings mean much more than just completely removing someone's status. When you notice a reviewer dropping off the mark, LET THEM KNOW! Mods and admins need to be responsible, meaning if I were to lock a thread I need to say why; if I delete a comment on NUMA I try to let the public know that comments were deleted, just like you should leave a comment on a users map when you disable their account with the reason(s) why they were disabled.

You've removed kkstrong's reviewer status simply on the opinion that of late he's been dropping in reviewer quality. Though I do think you're qualified to judge the quality of reviews, I believe it's important to drop reviewers a PM (or a comment on their map) when you notice 2 or 3 of their reviews in a row that are slipping in quality.

It's about being responsible before an action is taken and after an action is taken.

atob wrote:A little box was unchecked in kk's profile, that's all. If he re-applies with some quality reviews proving to me that he can keep up to the standard again (his early reviews are fine), the little box will be checked again.

atob wrote:A little box was unchecked in kk's profile, that's all. If he re-applies with some quality reviews proving to me that he can keep up to the standard again (his early reviews are fine), the little box will be checked again.

southpaw wrote:It's about being responsible before an action is taken...

What is just a checkbox to you is a huge privilege to the rest of us. Giving him a warning before you removed his status would have been the more appropriate action.

southpaw wrote:It's about being responsible before an action is taken...

atob wrote:Just to be clear, this has nothing to do with punishment. It's about efficiency. Consider it an effective means to keep the reviews up to standard. A mere pm wouldn't have been as effective as a suspension like this. This process will also separate those who really care about the position (as kk does, clearly), from those who don't really care enough to put the effort in to reform.

Wait, so all kk had to do to get his status back was to right a few reviews, which, were he still a reviewer, he would have written anyway?

atob is right. If kk really cares, he would accept what has happened, learn from the experience and act a little more mature.

Condog wrote:Wait, so all kk had to do to get his status back was to right a few reviews, which, were he still a reviewer, he would have written anyway?

atob is right. If kk really cares, he would accept what has happened, learn from the experience and act a little more mature.

You're my hero.

atob wrote:
southpaw wrote:It's about being responsible before an action is taken...

atob wrote:Just to be clear, this has nothing to do with punishment. It's about efficiency. Consider it an effective means to keep the reviews up to standard. A mere pm wouldn't have been as effective as a suspension like this. This process will also separate those who really care about the position (as kk does, clearly), from those who don't really care enough to put the effort in to reform.

You don't need to use your power to enact change, atob. The threat of losing a position within the community is more effective than completely removing their status. Separating those who want it from those who don't? Those who want it will work hard to keep it.

Condog wrote:atob is right. If kk really cares, he would accept what has happened, learn from the experience and act a little more mature.

If atob were being responsible he would have asked kkstrong to perform up to snuff beforehand. And if he felt like kkstrong still wasn't getting it then he could have taken his privilege away.

southpaw wrote:The threat of losing a position within the community is more effective than completely removing their status.

In my experience as admin, that is simply not the case, sorry. People respond much better in these situations when you give them a little incentive to change. Merely threatening with revokes/disables hardly ever works. On NUMA, at least.

I used to warn people for spamming maps. 7 times out of ten, the warning would be ignored.
Instead now I suspend the offending account for a couple of days. 7 times out of ten the offense isn't repeated.

I used to email inactive reviewers asking them if they could become more active, I hardly got any responses.
Now I reovke status. Every now and them I recieve an email asking to be reinstated, but for the most part nothing is said.

I used to email those reviewers who were slipping in quality of content and request they step up their game. That didn't seem to be effective.
Now I revoke status and ask for them to re-apply.
On the couple of occasions I've done this, the applications sent in weren't up to standard, and we weeded out those who couldn't keep up much more efficiently (this is the first time such a hoo-ha has been heard).

I repeat: All kk has to do is stop being feeling so bitter, take a deep breath, and submit a couple of quality reviews to me and all will be well.

atob wrote:In my experience as admin, that is simply not the case, sorry. People respond much better in these situations when you give them a little incentive to change. Merely threatening with revokes/disables hardly ever works.

I used to warn people for spamming maps. 7 times out of ten, the warning would be ignored.
Instead now I suspend the offending account for a couple of days. 7 times out of ten the offense isn't repeated.

I used to email inactive reviewers asking them if they could become more active, I hardly got any responses.
Now I reovke status. Every now and them I recieve an email asking to be reinstated, but for the most part nothing is said.

I used to email those reviewers who were slipping in quality of content and request they step up their game. That didn't seem to be effective.
Now I revoke status and ask for them to re-apply.
On the couple of occasions I've done this, the applications sent in aren't up to standard, and we weeded out those who couldn't keep up much more efficiently.

I repeat: All kk has to do is stop being feeling so bitter, take a deep breath, and submit a couple of quality reviews to me and all will be well.

There's the explanatory post everyone's been waiting for. It states your full case, and it states it well. With this post you have shown me (and probably several others) the light.

atob wrote:
southpaw wrote:The threat of losing a position within the community is more effective than completely removing their status.
In my experience as admin, that is simply not the case, sorry. People respond much better in these situations when you give them a little incentive to change. Merely threatening with revokes/disables hardly ever works. On NUMA, at least.

I used to warn people for spamming maps. 7 times out of ten, the warning would be ignored.
Instead now I suspend the offending account for a couple of days. 7 times out of ten the offense isn't repeated.

I used to email inactive reviewers asking them if they could become more active, I hardly got any responses.
Now I reovke status. Every now and them I recieve an email asking to be reinstated, but for the most part nothing is said.

I used to email those reviewers who were slipping in quality of content and request they step up their game. That didn't seem to be effective.
Now I revoke status and ask for them to re-apply.
On the couple of occasions I've done this, the applications sent in weren't up to standard, and we weeded out those who couldn't keep up much more efficiently (this is the first time such a hoo-ha has been heard).

I repeat: All kk has to do is stop being feeling so bitter, take a deep breath, and submit a couple of quality reviews to me and all will be well.

I guess if that's how you feel I really have no say, only being a moderator and all. I'm glad you finally took the time to share with us your experience (that was more what I was looking for than simply quoting things you've previously said).
In my experience, threats have worked so far. Though it may be because I've requested multiple people banned or disabled for a period of time that people know my threats are backed up by action. I guess on a larger scale it's more important to just do things now and undo them later... hmm, well said, atob.

southpaw wrote:I'm glad you finally took the time to share with us your experience (that was more what I was looking for than simply quoting things you've previously said).

Oh, I know, I was just a little annoyed that this was dragged onto the forums. I didn't really feel like justifying myself. My bad, I guess.

atob wrote:
southpaw wrote:I'm glad you finally took the time to share with us your experience (that was more what I was looking for than simply quoting things you've previously said).
Oh, I know, I was just a little annoyed that this was dragged onto the forums. I didn't really feel like justifying myself. My bad, I guess.

heh, nah, don't worry about it. It was bound to come about sooner or later. Plus, later you can just link to this post when people have issues with your judgment and drag it onto the forums :P

atob wrote: I used to email those reviewers who were slipping in quality of content and request they step up their game. That didn't seem to be effective.
Now I revoke status and ask for them to re-apply.

I've been e-mailed once or twice about my reviews, and I took what was said to heart and tried to make better reviews. So threats do work, probably better than suspension, with those of a demeanor akin to mine. Just sayin'.

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