Complaint

[Skyling]

rocket_thumped's actions were unjustified and abusive, and I think if anyone else made Amlt's comments they wouldn't have been deleted.

Amlt makes a thread called "Complaint"? Why am I not surprised?

[a happy song]

While I may no longer be admin on NUMA, I'm pretty sure most of the staff would agree that deleting comments simply because you don't like them (which is what this amounts to) is no way for a moderator to act.

Firstly, I encourage constructive criticism on my maps, whether it be negative or positive. That is how one becomes a better mapper. That is not why I deleted those comments.

The staff may agree, but they aren't around 99% of the time. Maestro, Sweep, Arachnid and Blute_Tetris are good guys, but they don't actually do anything on numa. southpaw puts a lot of work into numa and he knows I try to do the same.

That's cool dude, and I'm certainly not suggesting you don't take your position seriously. Just in this case a little too so, that's all.

[Luminaflare]

Incidentally, is here a good place to mention that jerrod got angry at me one time on IRC and deleted like 14 of my comments on the Hot Maps page? He's the best Mod by far (sorry sidke).

All in good fun, buddy.

Wait a second, that's no reason to delete comments, when global mods/admins want to have fun on the forum we cover it in ponies or some crap like that, we don't randomly delete peoples posts because we think it's fun and if we did we'd have our status revoked rather quickly.

[otters~1]

Sorry; where exactly?

Do I really have to get you some links?
Each week I see at least 4 or 5 l_d comments.
In terms of r_t commenting vs. l_d commenting, I honestly can't remember seeing a r_t comment in ages, however I often see l_d comments - this doesn't mean he doesn't comment, it means I don't see them.
If I'm fully honest I thought r_t quit years ago.

This isn't really the point in this topic though. I'm just complaining about my comments getting unfairly removed.

O.O ... I realize this isn't the main thrust of the thread, but ... /what/? It was my understanding that lord_day had been without a computer until very recently, and thus unable (or at least less able) to comment/moderate NUMA. He definitely hasn't posted on the forums for quite sometime. jerrod not only comments pretty often, he still /maps/ as well. Not sure how you missed that.

Furthermore, amount of comments does not equal amount of NUMA moderation. Not even close.

[amomentlikethis]

Amlt makes a thread called "Complaint"? Why am I not surprised?

As I've said before, I wouldn't complain at all if things were fixed more often.
My profile has been broken for well over a year now. *Rolls eyes*.

If my quite reasonable comments get removed without much reasoning, I see every right to complain about it - otherwise I may as well never comment again. After all, according to origami_alligator my comments aren't that important anyway.

--

About the other topic that seems to be going on in here: I never said r_t doesn't moderate; I said I never see him engage with the community. I imagine this is a time difference thing; lord_day is in the same country as I am so I probably see him comment more often for that reason.
As I said, I didn't even realise r_t was a moderator. I don't know how long ago he became a moderator, but generally when I see people (like r_t) comment on maps I go to their profile and see if they've made any recent maps (and thus discover they're a moderator or admin, or have some flashy custom title).

[rocket_thumped]

my comments aren't that important anyway.

Exactly.

[amomentlikethis]

my comments aren't that important anyway.

Exactly.

lol, so that's an admin and moderator of NUMA who think comments are worthless.
...and top rated was removed ages ago, so ratings are equally worthless.

It's good to see what NUMA has become!

I must say, I love how you've now classed my maps as 'filler' and are now calling what I post on NUMA unimportant.
I can really see why you were made a moderator. :)

[mintnut]

"and top rated was removed ages ago, so ratings are equally worthless."

top rated hadn't been working adequately for years.

Also I haven't seen any l_d interaction for months, but plenty of r_t.

As for the main brunt of this thread... I think you're all wrong : /

[Spawn of Yanni]

As for the main brunt of this thread... I think you're all wrong : /

Who's wrong? There are two distinct camps in here. Or do you disagree with both of them? In what way?

[unoriginal name]

I agree with mintnut and no one else.

[mintnut]

As for the main brunt of this thread... I think you're all wrong : /

Who's wrong? There are two distinct camps in here. Or do you disagree with both of them? In what way?

Yes i disagree with both camps. My main emotion reading this was a withering sense of disillusionment with the in-fighting and stagnating mess that is numa. We're like a family with far too many siblings, all hungry, and with only one cherry on our cake.

But y'know, I could never leave. : /

[unoriginal name]

only one cherry on our cake.

I'd like to pop /her/ only one cherry on our cake.

What? I'm contributing.

[squibbles]

I think that minty has this exactly right. Everyone just needs to calm down, and stop getting so emotional over such trivial events. "Ohh, Creature Feature, it's the end of NUMA!". "Ohh, an N-art on hotmaps, it's the end of NUMA!". "Ohh, deleted comments, it's the end of NUMA!". It happens every month. Get over it. It's not a big deal. Just calm down and be friends again, and I think you'll find we won't have these problems anymore.

EDIT by a happy song

OK, on that note let's edit your post and call you dick. Or perhaps I'll simply ban you because I don't like your face? Or maybe I'll delete every odd numbered post you make?

If it's ok for r_t, it's ok for me. Right?

Ridiculous. Some of you people need some perspective.

[amomentlikethis]

Well if that's the general consensus then I guess I'll just stop commenting on moderator/admin maps.

[a happy song]

The only problem in this situation is an overzealous mod who abused his position to get one up on a member he disagreed with. The main concern is nothing to do with anything but that.

Bicker all you want guys, justify it however you like. Fact remains, r_t overstepped his bounds here and should be reprimanded for it.

That's it.

r_t, please be aware of your position and responsibility. There are other admins besides pawz who can be contacted for removal needs should the moderators continuously overstep their bounds.

I'm closing this. If another mod absolutely feels the need to reopen and add something then do, but I see no reason to bicker about it any more.

[乳头的早餐谷物]

If another mod absolutely feels the need to reopen and add something then do

With gusto.

As for the main brunt of this thread... I think you're all wrong : /

Who's wrong? There are two distinct camps in here. Or do you disagree with both of them? In what way?

Yes i disagree with both camps. My main emotion reading this was a withering sense of disillusionment with the in-fighting and stagnating mess that is numa. We're like a family with far too many siblings, all hungry, and with only one cherry on our cake.

But y'know, I could never leave. : /

This holier-than-thou third position is a very attractive one to take but it's also entirely unworthy of comment. There's an issue being discussed here with two options that form a perfect dichotomy—either the comment deletion was justified or unjustified—and it's an issue that many people consider to be rather important, but oh no, you're better than the rabble, the inflammed opinionated masses. Yes, no-one likes to fight (except when they do). No-one would disagree, but nevertheless we're discussing something here and maybe it would be nice if you would discuss it too rather than poking in your head and being mainstream contrarian and I've sort-of forgotten the point I was trying to make, but hot air, that's what you are. I found something distasteful about your comment and I am airing my consternation.

[SlappyMcGee]

I've decided to reopen this because frankly, I think it is a reasonable problem that was never resolved.

First and foremost, whether or not rocket_thumped is engaged in the community or a good mod is irrelevant. Kablizzy has, in the past, literally built a community from where there was none, however, is Kablizzy started to post nothing but memes and irreverant tower posts (I'm looking at you, Ampersand), he would not be admin anymore.

Furthermore, the reason that rocket_thumped's character has come up at all here is because there is no case to make for his actions. I believe the only real push pro-r_t here is from southpaw, who, among other things, is the one in the position to make this decision. So, there's a dilemma.

On the one hand, I believe southpaw is probably just being reactionary; after all, amomentlikethis, in true frothing fashion, opened up this thread with baseless accusations against southpaw. Which is infuriating, and I understand why we're upset at AMLT.

AMLT, this is the portion directed at you of my post. You complain about fucking everything. There are many problems with Newma. For some, there are simple solutions that need to be implemented. Others, not even you have solutions for (code related issues, mostly.) The point being, while we are glad that you are finding any flaws, if you don't have solutions, don't be surprised if nobody else does either. The reason that Newma isn't getting worked on is because all of the coders that could be working on it are AltArc, or whatever the fuck that shit is. There is nobody to blame but them, but at least they have tried to address your problem with an alternative solution. Here, in a more direct case, however, I agree that your problem needs to be addressed. My recommendation is simply to lighten up a bit.

eganic, get the fuck out of here, you twat. Users on this /private/ forum have no simple, basic rights, because this is an internet forum, a private internet forum wherein you do not have the freedom to do whatever you want. You also can't go into the women's bathroom at Denny's, for similar reasons, even though it is your basic simple right to go wherever you please. If I hear about this shit again, I'm changing your nick to Twatganic. Especially if it is in a completely unrelated topic.

rocket_thumped: You did wrong. Apologize and get over it. AMLT's posts were perfectly justified, and if you can't realize that, then you are not doing a good job of moderating NUMA. If you can at least realize that what you did was wrong and apologize, then it's cool, because we all do stupid shit sometimes. (I almost changed some guy's nickname to Twatganic.)

southpaw: If you are going to be admin of NUMA, try to be less laissez-faire and more hands-on. The attitude, "Sure, he did something wrong, but what am I supposed to do about it?" has an obvious answer, and that's to tell rocket_thumped he did something wrong. If you are tired of telling rocket_thumped he did something wrong, then it's time to stop, and the only way to do that is for him to stop being mod.

And at the people who took a step back and then exagerrated everybody's claims to make themselves look as cool as a cucumber, I know that the Golden Age of NUMA is a nostalgic dream, but the new NUMA does have problems, and, while I think AMLT's reactionary bullshit is one of those problems, I also don't think it's Time To Pretend that there is nothing wrong here. Grow up. If all you have to say in a thread is react less, then you're part of the problem too.

[origami_alligator]

southpaw: If you are going to be admin of NUMA, try to be less laissez-faire and more hands-on. The attitude, "Sure, he did something wrong, but what am I supposed to do about it?" has an obvious answer, and that's to tell rocket_thumped he did something wrong. If you are tired of telling rocket_thumped he did something wrong, then it's time to stop, and the only way to do that is for him to stop being mod.

My main reason for reacting in such a way is that this is the first instance in which I have heard of rocket_thumped doing something out-of-line. If there were more frequent and somewhat more extreme cases of him doing wrong I would have removed his modship a long time ago, but as it stands he does his job as well as any of the other mods and this is the first instance I can think of where someone has complained about his actions.

[amomentlikethis]

AMLT, this is the portion directed at you of my post. You complain about fucking everything. There are many problems with Newma. For some, there are simple solutions that need to be implemented. Others, not even you have solutions for (code related issues, mostly.) The point being, while we are glad that you are finding any flaws, if you don't have solutions, don't be surprised if nobody else does either. The reason that Newma isn't getting worked on is because all of the coders that could be working on it are AltArc, or whatever the fuck that shit is. There is nobody to blame but them, but at least they have tried to address your problem with an alternative solution. Here, in a more direct case, however, I agree that your problem needs to be addressed. My recommendation is simply to lighten up a bit.

The only things I complain about are the things that worked perfectly fine a few years ago that, theoretically, have no reason to not work now. I'm not a NUMA staff member, it's not my job to post up the solutions. If people are really looking for a solution from me, here's one: revert NUMA to what it was when everything worked.
It's all good telling me to lighten up, but it's not really easy to do that when I get told by NUMA's administration that my comments are worthless and my maps aren't worth playing. I'd be able to lighten up if, instead of firing lousy insults, the staff of NUMA gave some reassurance about fixing things. A simple "oh sure, we'll look into that right away!" would be nice; instead all I ever really hear is "there are bigger problems that need fixing". I always wonder what these 'bigger problems' are, but generally I get called a twat or told to shut up before I can ask.

As you said, all rocket_thumped really had to do was come in here and apologise. Problem solved.
Yes, I did accuse origami_alligator of doing it; if I realised r_t was a moderator I wouldn't have. I apologise.

I've already posted the main reasons for why mine and several others' profiles don't work, yet they're still all broken. It's not like I'm being selfish complaining about it once every 4-5 months.

[origami_alligator]

The only things I complain about are the things that worked perfectly fine a few years ago that, theoretically, have no reason to not work now. I'm not a NUMA staff member, it's not my job to post up the solutions. If people are really looking for a solution from me, here's one: revert NUMA to what it was when everything worked.

The thing you have failed to realise or read over every time you say something like this is:
Only Arachnid has the ability to provide solutions to problems with NUMA.
That said, if neither you nor I can fix things, AMLT, then it would be helpful if we could have a discussion on possible solutions that will probably never be implemented rather than simply saying that something doesn't work and why is nobody doing anything about it. We can't do anything about it. Get this through your head.

It's all good telling me to lighten up, but it's not really easy to do that when I get told by NUMA's administration that my comments are worthless and my maps aren't worth playing. I'd be able to lighten up if, instead of firing lousy insults, the staff of NUMA gave some reassurance about fixing things. A simple "oh sure, we'll look into that right away!" would be nice; instead all I ever really hear is "there are bigger problems that need fixing". I always wonder what these 'bigger problems' are, but generally I get called a twat or told to shut up before I can ask.

I think you ignore a lot of what we say, because within the last 6 months the only thing I've been saying is, "Arachnid isn't here, we can't fix anything, sorry for the inconvenience." The comments thing is obviously directed toward this thread, but the maps thing is a bug, an error, something that we can't fix because like I said earlier in this post:
Only Arachnid has the ability to provide solutions to problems with NUMA.

As you said, all rocket_thumped really had to do was come in here and apologise. Problem solved.
Yes, I did accuse origami_alligator of doing it; if I realised r_t was a moderator I wouldn't have. I apologise.

It was a misunderstanding but thank you for the apology. I also apologize that sometimes the staff does things out of personal bias.

I've already posted the main reasons for why mine and several others' profiles don't work, yet they're still all broken. It's not like I'm being selfish complaining about it once every 4-5 months.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you think is causing your profiles to be broken so that maybe we can look for a solution. I managed to fix a couple broken profile pages by removing certain links or images from their profile text, but I don't have a solution to fixing your map issue. This is probably something that only Arachnid is able to fix.

[amomentlikethis]

Only Arachnid has the ability to provide solutions to problems with NUMA.

That's all nice; why isn't he fixing it?

...it would be helpful if we could have a discussion on possible solutions that will probably never be implemented rather than simply saying that something doesn't work...

You say that as though I haven't already pointed out what the problem probably is. Here's a quote from this topic, posted last June:

I think Barabajagal had his name changed in the past - as did I. So that's probably the problem.

[Tunco]

Only Arachnid has the ability to provide solutions to problems with NUMA.

That's all nice; why isn't he fixing it?

He works at Google, a while ago he started co-authoring a book on Google App Engine, and he is married and he has a life to live.

[SlappyMcGee]

Simply put, I would like to actually for reals put some reassurance into AMLT et al. who are concerned in the current state of NEWMA, because we are working hard on a fix to their issues. Not kidding, not being a twat, but for reals here: we are actively working towards fixing your problem and more. While bug reporting for NUMA is fine, complaining is not conducive. We know that you have a problem, we genuinely want to fix it, there are a few roadblocks in the way, but we're going to try and work around them over the next little while. Please be patient.

[Spawn of Yanni]

Also, just in case anyone forgot: We as a community no longer have that right to say "damnit, if arachnid was around, shit could get done." It's been over a year since he said that he wants to hand NUMA over to someone else and nobody has stepped up (for whatever reason, however legitimate). Like Slappy said, we're now looking at alternatives, so things might change over the next few <time period>s.

[Tunco]

Also, just in case anyone forgot: We as a community no longer have that right to say "damnit, if arachnid was around, shit could get done." It's been over a year since he said that he wants to hand NUMA over to someone else and nobody has stepped up (for whatever reason, however legitimate). Like Slappy said, we're now looking at alternatives, so things might change over the next few <time period>s.

Simply put, I would like to actually for reals put some reassurance into AMLT et al. who are concerned in the current state of NEWMA, because we are working hard on a fix to their issues. Not kidding, not being a twat, but for reals here: we are actively working towards fixing your problem and more. While bug reporting for NUMA is fine, complaining is not conducive. We know that you have a problem, we genuinely want to fix it, there are a few roadblocks in the way, but we're going to try and work around them over the next little while. Please be patient.

Slappy dude you just talked like a répondeur. And Yanni, that being said, we need to hire a webmaster or someone in order to take care of these problems. On the other hand of course we can find a new alternative in the near future next few decades but people won't wait that long.