The Evil Guide to Mapping

Discuss N mapping theory, N maps, and other aspects of map-making.

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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.10.17 (20:06)

The Evil Guide to Mapping
Contents
  • Introduction
  • NUMA
  • Objects and their uses
  • Tile uses
  • Races
  • Mine-jumpers
  • DDAs
  • Action
  • Miscellanious
  • Puzzle
  • Other tips
Introduction
Before we get started, you'll need to download the game, which you probably already have, but I'll provide a link.

This guide is an in-depth walkthrough of the features of Ned. I claim all credit for this, if you wish to provide a link to this, feel free, but don't claim it as your own, as it is my work.
NUMA
NUMA is the place to head for inspiration and advice from your fellow map-makers, it is also a place to submit your maps for other people to enjoy. NUMA has many features but it is still in work and things need fixing.
Objects and their uses
Lets get to work on objects. Try to find a place for the ninja that isn't too daunting, or ugly, placing him so that you have to hold left or hit jump as soon as you touch the ground is not reccomended, imagine you were the player, you'd want the ninja in a place where you can think and plan your move. Edit the tileset to fit.

Placing the door and the switch can be a difficult task, you can save it for last if you like, but an easy way too place the exit is at the far end of the map from the ninja, or near where the ninja is. It's a nice look to place it in a dead-end that is well-guarded. The switch, normally, is placed far away from the exit, or straight on top. Very rarely will you find it near or next to the door. Again, it looks nice in a dead-end guarded by doors and enemies.

Now before you place gold, think. Do you want it to be on the path, or in hard to reach places, or again in a dead-end. Or in a wide open area. Now the next thing is very important in my opinion, for consistency and aesthetics. come up with a pattern and stick to it. The reason is, when you play a map, consistent gold is easy on the eyes and gives better gameplay, it also improves the theme.

When placing enemies, stop for a second. Do you want a laser to limit an area? Do you want mines placed in the middle of the map so you have to follow them round? Do you want chainguns to dominate an area of the map? A single well placed enemy can mean the difference between a good map and a... not so good map. Again, consistency is important, a rocket in a tunnel can be fatal, but provide a fun challenge, a rocket in an open space with bounceblocks and gold is great fun to play about with. Place enemies wherever you think they make it fun, remember, enemies should be placed for just the right amount of difficulty, or for fun, spamming enemies (like 2 rockets when only 1 is needed) just upsets the gameplay, and makes a less fun map overall.

Thwumps are very good enemies, with 3 solid edges, and, with the right timing, can shoot you up higher than you can jump, this is a very good method to use in puzzles. I reccomend that you use thwumps in most of your maps, this is because they will work in just about any, with the right placement. I would not place them in the middle of the map in open space. Simply because it looks horrendous and doesn't play very well. Thwumps look cool situated against walls, in columns about 1-5 tile spaces wide. Thwumps can be very useful in races, for running along them to make it more exciting.

Lasers can be used for lots of things, they can be used as standard enemies, or as a timing challenge, manipulating lasers can be difficult but the player feels good when it is done right, so maybe you should make it that they have to get a laser to fire in a certain place, so as not to block your path. Lasers look cool just about anywhere, so place them as you will, just make sure it's fun and challenging. Also, try experimenting limiting off an area with a laser, this can often be difficult, as it takes a greater level of skill to do than placing a laser normally.

Chainguns are either the best enemy in the world, or the worst. A badly placed chaingun can make an excellent map terrible, simply because when used badly they kill you almost always. Mostly newcomers won't be using chainguns, simply because they require mastery to use. A chaingun can work wonderfully in a tunnel, and wonderfully in open space. They are the gods of enemies, and should be treated like such.

Rockets are also great for tunnels and open space. In an open space, a rocket and bounceblock combination is one of the most fun things you can do in a map. In a linear map, they can test your timing skills to the limit. Rockets often require a great deal of patience to place right, so if you want to make a quick map, I wouldn't reccomend them.

Gausses are the most versatile enemy, because they can be placed almost anywhere and still look and play well, they aren't amazing in open spaces, but still a good reserve for a rocket. In tunnels you can place a gauss and it will give you a fabulous timing challenge, requiring precision and skill, use this to your advantage.

Floorguards can be used to limit areas, provide difficult jumps and sometimes give a puzzly element to a map. They can be placed on ceilings and walls if you are using Nreality, but I won't be talking about Nreality in this guide. When placing a floorguard remember, no more than 3 floorguards is needed on a single floor, you can do if you like, to create longer jumps, but mines will work for that to. Now if you are placing 2 on the same floor, one on each side. you can create an extremely puzzly element by forcing the player to make them bunch up together, have a look through some autosurfer maps for good examples of this.

Zap drones come in two forms, seeker and normal, normal will follow a route and seeker will zoom towards you at a fast speed. Now often times you will find two tunnels on either side, and an open space in the middle of the map. Now in these tunnels will be seekers, these seekers shoot to the other tunnel, or to you, when you get in their site. This provides a great challenge even for skillful players, so you can be certain that people will be enjoying the map. You can also trigger seeker drones by placing them in a tunnel with doors, then when you hit the switch (often times this will let you into a new area) they zoom out and make the map very interesting. Normal ones can be used in a prisoner map, in which case you will have to walk in between them all the way through the map, with exciting challenges in between. Smaller gaps will make a harder map. They can also follow a path that provides a fun, yet easy challenge.

Mines. Very easy to go overboard with, but when placed minimalistically then can make a map very fun. They can also make a map look nice. It's possible to jump one grid space between them too, see meta_ing's "jumping up a mine laced shaft" on how to do this. I don't reccomend you do it in your map though. Mines are my trademark weapon, my so-called random mine-jumper maps are normally well recieved, this is because I focus on aesthetically pleasing curves. Curves look nice but I wouldn't reccomend them because they often take up a lot of space. Mines can limit an area of the map and make you take a longer route.
Tile uses
A map usually involves a nice looking tileset that is easy to manouvere on. Whilst you don't actually need to have one to create a good map, tilesets will attract the attention of players, and often-time lead to you getting praise.

Creating an awful tileset is very easy to do, and you can often screw gameplay and aesthetics with a bad tileset. Tilesets need moulding into a good-looking, good-playing masterpiece. Here is a tileset that is not what you should do:



Whilst the gameplay in areas is fine and dandy, it is ugly and unsteady, it would also be very difficult to mould a map out of it.

Creating an E-tile tileset is fine, like Meta_Ing's E Tile Theory and can often make a good map. If you really want to make one, go ahead and try it, but don't feel crushed if you get scathing comments.

Now thinking up tile patterns is very difficult, but it's a good way to theme your map. Tile patterns can consist of anything, a 6 tile above a 5 tile, or two 4s next to eachother. Again, as always, experimentation is the key, and if you find something that looks nice, try and keep the map similar. This doesn't mean copy and pasting it randomly around the entire map, as this will look awful and messy. It means experimenting with similar patterns until you have a good looking map.

Remember to mould your tileset to gameplay, and sometimes it's neccasserry to sacrifice aesthetics for gameplay, so don't be scared to go over and re-do it. Apart from that there isn't much I can help you with on tilesets, as it is something you should learn how to make yourself.
Races
Races were much loved by the community, but they are slowly dieing away, due to a flood of noobish races. There are a spare few good race-makers; _destiny^-, Riobe, yungerkid and da_man894 to name a few. I like to consider myself a race-maker, and here is my humble collection of tips:
  • (*)Flow over tileset, flow is the most important thing about races, if a race doesn't have much flow, well, it's not a race
    (*)Keep a similar gold pattern, if you want it to look nice, keep it similar
    (*)Close calls are important, to make it exciting and kill you if you screw up
    (*)Drones for timing, drone timing can be really annoying, but people appreciate well done drones
There isn't much more to say about race-making, but if you want a more extensive guide, click here.

---------------------------------------

Continued later.

---------------------------------------

If you want to add anything to this guide, post a reply and it'll be added, with credit.
Last edited by Evil_Sire on 2008.11.11 (19:22), edited 6 times in total.

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Postby Pixon » 2008.10.17 (20:24)

Well done Sire. This would be really helpful for newcomers.
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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.10.17 (20:29)

I take by that comment that you don't know what sire means.

No I didn't know what it meant until I asked my Dad, then I felt dumb.

It means Father, so don't call me Sire (it just sounds wierd) call me Evil.

And thanks for the comment!

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Postby lord_day » 2008.10.17 (22:13)

I didn't see the connection between the first map you posted and the second one.
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Postby Nexx » 2008.10.17 (22:21)

As I plan on putting together a few mapping guides some day, I'll give you my thoughts on this.

Overall, it's quite general, and it's not really a guide so much as a collection of tips, but nonetheless it's a decent effort and could be helpful for newer mappers, though it needs some work.

Basically it seems like you've tried to break down your tips into three areas: making the tileset, prettifying the tileset, and adding enemies. So here comes my biggest concern with your "guide": where are the tips for the first two sections?

Here's what you did for the first two parts:
1) Making the tileset: "First things first, we need to make a decent tileset that plays well", followed by one example. End section.
2) Prettifying the tileset: "We need to trim up aesthetics, they are extremely important in attracting players and will help your map on it's way to victory," followed by one example and one good but nonetheless very general tip. End section.

So as you can see, both sections need to be more helpful, especially the first one. How precisely does one go about making good tilesets? A lot of authors have a problem with this, including myself, and it's the type of thing your tips should offer some insight into. Not to mention that you only have one example for that section, and it's small, and it already has enemies placed in it.

As for the second section, you could add more examples or more general tips about how to make tilesets look good. For example, you claim that the focus of tileset creation is making a tileset that plays well, yet your example has dead ends and bumps that clearly aren't put in with gameplay in mind but are for visuals. You need to make it explicit that while gameplay is the primary objective of tileset creation, visuals are a secondary objective.

(Edit: lord_day has a good point. If you're going to use examples, either use multiple different examples, or show one level at the different stages of development.)

Your third section is pretty good. Obviously, a lot of the enemies have more versatile uses than what you've described here, but as a general guide for newer mappers, it's pretty good. However, you give no tips for mine placement other than the number of mines to use. Mine placement is key to mine usage, and you should offer some tips on it. You also give no real tips for floorguard usage.

Additionally, I don't like how you suggest a certain range of mines/gold to shoot for. That's just not how mapping works. Mappers should use as few or as many as gets the job done, and that means not placing a lot of unnecessary ones (aka spamming). Thinking of a certain range as "correct" is a fundamentally flawed approach to mapping. Just encourage their use where they fit and then discourage spamming.

Other, more general concerns:
- Break this baby down visually! I had to read through it a second time to really understand what your overall approach was. Divide it into sections, and give those sections headings. When you're giving advice for enemies in the third section, put "enemy - text text text".
- You start the second section (prettifying the tileset) with the opener "After playtesting it very thoroughly, ..." That's obviously ironic, because they can't playtest until they've added enemies, but that's the third section. So either take out that lead-in or swap the two sections.
- Make it curse-free. You dropped the f-bomb in the section on gausses.

So there you have it. That's a whole bunch of constructive criticism for you.

Also, the nickname Sire has a lot more potential to catch on than Evil, as another member, Evil_Bob, has an obviously similar username and is already a very well established member of this community. Not that anyone calls Evil_Bob "Evil", just that they'd call you "Sire" because it helps distinguish you two. And if it bothers you that people are calling you Sire, then also know that it was used long ago as a form of address for a superior, especially a king.

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Postby notsteve » 2008.10.17 (22:45)

i just like to think of him as godenator

i also failed to see how the first map led into the second.

on a worse note, i disagreed with much of your talk about enemies
mines: an extra mine or two in a nice looking place (under a tile) does not increase load time by any noticeable amount, and can add a lot to a map. load time is NOT the most important thing

rockets are good and all, but can be especially annoying when placed in odd places.
gauss IMO is the easiest enemy to use, so i agree there

Chainguns - no, you dont just have to find an open area and stick one in there. for proper chaingun use one needs to provide an area where the ninja has to move quickly through to avoid, rest a bit, then move quickly through another part.

lasers - my favorite enemy. i was disapointed that you said they were terrible
floorguards need a lot more care than you went over to be used right
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Postby a happy song » 2008.10.18 (08:04)

Evil_SIre

Map guides like this only work if the writer has a deep understanding of how to make a great map. You have neither the experience nor ability to pull it off.

Your advice is absolutely awful and you clearly haven't a clue about the the nuances of NED: lasers are an extremely versatile enemy, chainguns need more than an open area to be effective, there are no magic numbers for mines etc....

I'd recommend you take a step back for a while, stop creating these threads, heed the advice of the more experinced and respected members and perhaps you'll actually learn something worth sharing.
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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.10.18 (10:33)

atob wrote:Evil_SIre

Map guides like this only work if the writer has a deep understanding of how to make a great map. You have neither the experience nor ability to pull it off.

Your advice is absolutely awful and you clearly haven't a clue about the the nuances of NED: lasers are an extremely versatile enemy, chainguns need more than an open area to be effective, there are no magic numbers for mines etc....

I'd recommend you take a step back for a while, stop creating these threads, heed the advice of the more experinced and respected members and perhaps you'll actually learn something worth sharing.
Well why don't you actually give me advice and then I might learn something.

And I haven't a clue about the nuances of NED? Explain how my maps almost always get well recieved.

Instead of de-faming me time after time, tell me how to improve it like Avarin (nexx) has, tell me where it's shit, where it's OK, and where it's absolutely awful. Tell me why it is those things.

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Postby a happy song » 2008.10.18 (10:36)

Evil_Sire wrote:Well why don't you actually give me advice and then I might learn something.

And I haven't a clue about the nuances of NED? Explain how my maps almost always get well recieved.

Instead of de-faming me time after time, tell me how to improve it like Avarin (nexx) has, tell me where it's shit, where it's OK, and where it's absolutely awful. Tell me why it is those things.
atob wrote: I'd recommend you take a step back for a while, stop creating these threads, heed the advice of the more experinced and respected members and perhaps you'll actually learn something worth sharing.
If you can't take it from here yourself, I don't think I can offer you anything that's going to have a real impact.

Pay attention to who exactly is recieving your maps well, they're certainly not the authors who shape the definitions of what a great map can be. Feel free to wallow in the shallow swamps of back-patting banality all you want. I won't try to stop you.

And you've got no fame to 'de', you've done a grand job of that yourself without a hand from anyone else.
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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.10.18 (10:49)

Does it really matter that no "great" authors are playing my maps? People enjoy them, even if they aren't "big" names. I didn't write it for "big" names, I wrote it for newcomers who want some help.

What's your definition of "great" anyway? A newcomer with 25 maps rated 5? Or someone from 2005 with 300 maps?

There is no definition of great author, lots of new authors get along pretty well.

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Postby a happy song » 2008.10.18 (10:58)

A great author is someone who takes ideas and progresses them with personal innovation and imagination. Someone who has a vision and the ability to realize it. Someone who understands their faults and works to strengthen their foundations BEFORE diving in the deep end like they know it all.

We can define these things when we know what to look for.
Evil_Sire wrote:Does it really matter that no "great" authors are playing my maps? People enjoy them, even if they aren't "big" names. I didn't write it for "big" names, I wrote it for newcomers who want some help.
I didn't call you on that. People are free to enjoy what they like, obviously.

What I did call you on was offering awful, detrimental advice when should clearly be learning yourself.

Newer members really won't find much of value in your OP, they'd be much better off paying attention to someone who doesn't need the 'nuances of NED' explained to them. I don't see what's so difficult to digest about that.

This might seem harsh, but I certainly think it's fair. It's up to you what you take from it.
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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.10.18 (11:07)

I don't need to learn the "nuances of NED" again thanks, when I first came here I spent ages searching for a decent guide that would help me make maps.

I didn't find one (yes, I looked at those two awful guides on instructables and NUMA) so I learnt myself, I looked through maps and this (what I wrote) is how I learned to make my maps.

But whatever, I see your point. Kill it if you want, I don't care.

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Postby MattKestrel » 2008.10.18 (11:37)

:O

Atob, your band is cool!

And personally i think that guides arent really necessary, its just a matter of picking it up as you go along imo. Its more of a gjourney of self realisation than something that you can read and get good at. Its a bit like chess, but without the bishops and pieces moving several squares in opposite directions at once.
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Postby Nexx » 2008.10.18 (22:13)

Evil_Sire wrote:I don't need to learn the "nuances of NED" again thanks, when I first came here I spent ages searching for a decent guide that would help me make maps.
atob's not referring to the nuances of the actual map editor, he's referring to the nuances of mapping.

Anywa, I think GTM has said it best so far: Mapping is a journey of self-realization.
However, I feel it necessary to point out that very useful information can still be gleaned from guides and the like. That's not the point of the journey, nor is it where most of the journey is or should be spent, but it definitely can aid in the journey.

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Postby Pheidippides » 2008.10.19 (00:49)

Evil_Sire wrote:(yes, I looked at those two awful guides on instructables and NUMA)
Somebody needs a guide on manners.
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Postby George » 2008.10.19 (03:16)

Evil_Sire wrote:I don't need to learn the "nuances of NED" again thanks, when I first came here I spent ages searching for a decent guide that would help me make maps.

I didn't find one (yes, I looked at those two awful guides on instructables and NUMA) so I learnt myself, I looked through maps and this (what I wrote) is how I learned to make my maps.

But whatever, I see your point. Kill it if you want, I don't care.
Really? I think there were plenty of useful threads on the forums. There was a /really/ good Legacy guide, but I can't seem to find it right now...

The Map Manifestos
Mapmakerisms
N Turnons and Turnoffs

Anyway, these are only some of the threads that would have been useful to mappers, newcomers or veterans. You'd think that there'd be a few decent guides, seeing as this is the home forum of N map making.

Edit: Aha! Here it is! Map Theory

Searching the right keywords would be helpful...
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Postby Condog » 2008.10.19 (04:28)

George wrote:Edit: Aha! Here it is! Map Theory
Any chance that's going to be be finished? And was it the Legacy Team in general who wrote it or just Dave?
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Postby George » 2008.10.19 (07:50)

Condog wrote:
George wrote:Edit: Aha! Here it is! Map Theory
Any chance that's going to be be finished? And was it the Legacy Team in general who wrote it or just Dave?
I think this guide was written before Dave joined Legacy, because all the maps they've used is from Origins. And if I remember correctly, that guide has been in existence for a long time.
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Postby unoriginal name » 2008.10.19 (22:47)

George wrote:
Condog wrote:
George wrote:Edit: Aha! Here it is! Map Theory
Any chance that's going to be be finished? And was it the Legacy Team in general who wrote it or just Dave?
I think this guide was written before Dave joined Legacy, because all the maps they've used is from Origins. And if I remember correctly, that guide has been in existence for a long time.
I think Kablizzy started it, and Dave later added to it, I seem to recall.

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Postby Pheidippides » 2008.10.20 (13:58)

gloomp wrote:I think Kablizzy started it, and Dave later added to it, I seem to recall.
I remember that. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Kablizzy's brainchild. Maybe some of the veterans could get together and finish it, then have it moved to The Real N? I'd be willing to write some stuff, if people would want me to. It's a shame it's incomplete.
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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.10.20 (14:56)

Pheidippides wrote:
gloomp wrote:I think Kablizzy started it, and Dave later added to it, I seem to recall.
I remember that. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Kablizzy's brainchild. Maybe some of the veterans could get together and finish it, then have it moved to The Real N? I'd be willing to write some stuff, if people would want me to. It's a shame it's incomplete.
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Postby crescor » 2008.10.27 (13:25)

It's a decent guide.
And great players seems to be the ones that were here the longest. I really don't think that defines great, but some people think different here.
And compared to atob's guide, this is much more helpfull and better.
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Postby a happy song » 2008.10.27 (14:05)

crescor wrote: And compared to atob's guide, this is much more helpfull and better.
You honestly think that 'shallow and poorly educated opinion of object placement and use' is better advice than 'go and study for yourself, here's where'?

Come on dude, this shouldn't even be subjective...

But, wait! You don't need to answer:
crescor wrote:It's a decent guide.
And great players seems to be the ones that were here the longest..
If this is your final observation on what makes a great player great, then I can fully understand how you could confuse Evil's guide with something helpful. My bad :)
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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.10.27 (14:57)

What's with the massive thread bump.

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Postby lord_day » 2008.10.27 (15:17)

crescor wrote:And compared to atob's guide, this is much more helpfull and better.
Oh I agree. I've always wanted to learn to make an Evil_Sire map.
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