Metanet Forums

Can the quality of a thing be determined purely via the subjective with personal perspective and experience, or is there also an objective way to determine that value?

i would say subjective.
your definition of quality is always different from others

When comparing tangible items, such as... let's say, 2 different kinds of mp3players, then features and pricing are what I consider to be objective. Maybe A has more storage space than B for the same price, but perhaps B has something A doesn't have, such as making playlists on the fly or perhaps the organization of the files is better. I don't think these things can be argued better or worse. One of them, in the end, will be statistically superior, unless you're talking about features you don't need or money is not an issue for you, in which case it become subjective from that point onward.

It's a matter of both really. Like Twistkill's example, you'd have to look at the rock solid facts first, then compare on what qualities you'd find important to you.

I'd leaning towards subjective on this one.

Everything is subjective. Everything.

Also, goddamnit atob, i thought you said you were going to let it go?

I'd agree with Twistkill. Quality is certainly a subjective attribute, but its tangibility defines the objectivity.

Condog wrote:Everything is subjective. Everything.

I hope you're being facetious thar.

Condog wrote:Also, goddamnit atob, i thought you said you were going to let it go?

I said I couldn't be bothered to bang my head against brick walls, that's all.

Plus I'm wondering what the rest of you think.

Bits of both. In some cases, there are tangible differences which clearly make one product objectively superior to the other. In other cases, the quality isn't based on measurable values (eg. movies, books, etc.) or the products have different features and/or are better in different areas, and the perceived quality thus depends on how much you value those features.

I'd say it can be measured objectively in an 'impartial' way, but the vast majority of us have biases and preferences that make it a subjective matter. For example, a particular hard disc drive may perform very well by all benchmarks, thus making it good quality. I, however, might disregard it as a crap if it's a Maxtor simply because of my past experience with such products. It may still be a perfectly good product, but I won't like it.

The objective matters, I think, will be properties of the object, while subjective matters will be from user experience.

Quality, among other things, is the application of objective data to come to a subjective conclusion.

So a little of both.

atob, I don't know why you're laughing at Condog saying that everything is subjective. I totally agree with him. I suppose it's a rather solipsistic argument, but I definitely agree.

It depends on the situation imo.
But I'd take my pick of subjective.

Everything is subjective.

We need to breathe oxygen to live. Is that subjective?

If I punched you in the face, would that be subjective?

Please, tell your answer to my fist.

I think ultimately it is subjective. In many cases you can assign a criteria for quality and then judge quality somewhat objectively using a set of solid criteria. However people value things differently so the setting of the criteria will be subjective.

atob wrote:We need to breathe oxygen to live. Is that subjective?

By the subjective reality argument: In the world you observe, you and the others around you need oxygen to breathe.

This entire conversation is going to boil down to an argument about subjectivism. Which will be horrendously boring, as has been observed in the past. I fear for those who participate in this debate.

Depends on what you are quality-ifying (I like my words).

This pudding I'm eating? the quality is probably subjective (although I think it is delicious)

A steel beam? there isn't a whole lot of ways to judge the quality other then how strong it is, so that is pretty objective

atob wrote:Can the quality of a thing be determined purely via the subjective with personal perspective and experience, or is there also an objective way to determine that value?

Someone just finish Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? I think Pirsig arrived at the conclusion that Quality is objective but I can't remember exactly how. Book's friggin convoluted.

rennaT wrote:

atob wrote:Can the quality of a thing be determined purely via the subjective with personal perspective and experience, or is there also an objective way to determine that value?

Someone just finish Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? I think Pirsig arrived at the conclusion that Quality is objective but I can't remember exactly how. Book's friggin convoluted.

I've not read that actually, should I?

blue_tetris wrote:This entire conversation is going to boil down to an argument about subjectivism. Which will be horrendously boring, as has been observed in the past. I fear for those who participate in this debate.

;D

atob wrote:

rennaT wrote:

atob wrote:Can the quality of a thing be determined purely via the subjective with personal perspective and experience, or is there also an objective way to determine that value?

Someone just finish Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? I think Pirsig arrived at the conclusion that Quality is objective but I can't remember exactly how. Book's friggin convoluted.

I've not read that actually, should I?

Really? Well, if you're interested in Quality, you definitely should.

BlckNWhteNnja wrote:Everything is subjective.

That depends on your point of view.

Atilla wrote:

BlckNWhteNnja wrote:Everything is subjective.

That depends on your point of view.

Which makes it subjective. Or not.

Condog wrote:

Atilla wrote:

BlckNWhteNnja wrote:Everything is subjective.

That depends on your point of view.

Which makes it subjective. Or not.

Which is even more subjective.