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I was randomly wandering the internet this evening, when a banner ad on Slacker led me to the Partnership for a Drug Free America's somewhat amusing Don't Sound Like your Parents campaign. I randomly wandered their parent resources for a while, being entertained by how I match like all of the signs of drug use they list. Anyway, I eventually found this article:
http://www.drugfree.org/Parent/HowToSpo ... Snoop.aspx
It's on whether or not parents are justified in searching their teenage children's rooms, computers, etc..., or even demanding to look through phone contact lists and IM buddy lists (interestingly, they don't mention all the logged IM conversations and text messages that are surely around).
This is an interesting issue. Do you think parents are justified in severely reducing or eliminating the privacy of their children in order to prevent potentially harmful drug/alcohol use? can this be extended to other potentially harmful activities like "hanging out with the wrong crowd"?

I personally tend to stand against the restriction of privacy due to the fact that I don't largely trust parents judgment and I feel than privacy is sacrosanct, but this is a complex issue.

You'd only have to resort to violation of privacy if you were a terrible parent to begin with.

Tsukatu wrote:You'd only have to resort to violation of privacy if you were a terrible parent to begin with.

What I'd say more is: if you can't find a way to deal with whatever issue there is without violating your child's privacy, then you're not being a very good parent, or adult in general.

The value of trust, specifically the confidence it installs in children of their perspective of the world and how relationships work, is something that needs to be retained. Do these parents really think by destroying their child's faith in them that their already rebellious and experimental teenager will sit down and play house nicely?

Tsukatu wrote:You'd only have to resort to violation of privacy if you were a terrible parent to begin with.

Well-said. Agreed 100%.

The symptoms of "abuse" are ridiculous. Most of them are symptoms of being a teenager, and half of what's left are just random things that could affect anyone. Seriously, secretive phone calls? Some of us happen to think eavesdropping is rude and would rather not have people listen to our phone conversations. Not to mention that things like being sullen and avoiding eye contact are probably directly related to having parents who think they are justified in going through your phone and running a background check on every name they don't recognize, as if they need to pre-approve everyone you talk to.

As you may have guessed, I agree with everyone else here: if you have to invade your child's privacy like this, something has already gone tragically wrong. I love that they have sections on "Connecting with your teen" on the same page they advocate betraying said teen's trust in order to riffle through their things behind their back, while rationalising it with "It's not snooping! It's fact-finding."

And surely I'm not the only one who finds it hilarious that they point out that finding hidden stashes of alcohol may be a sign your child is using alcohol.

Is there no line between using and abusing drugs? It seems that most websites like this just lump all drug use into the latter.

Well, I believe it's assumed that these 'teens' are not legally allowed to use any drugs, and therefore any use is abuse, since it's use on the wrong terms. But I totally agree with you from a more literal standpoint. A lot of this shit is perpetuated by the ridiculous goals we set ourselves, such as, for you, turning twenty-one to drink alcohol legally. Basically, any use up until then is, as you say, abuse, and afterwards, is use. Unless you hit your kids. 'Cause that's not okay.

Wait, yes it is.

Conflicting popular opinions, anyone?

Another question which we almost definitely will unanimously agree on: if, as parents, we have caught our child doing drugs, what is our role? I'm not a parent or anything, so I don't know necessarily how I'd respond, but I wonder if I'd be inclined to tell the authorities.

SlappyMcGee wrote:I wonder if I'd be inclined to tell the authorities.

I'd imagine it would depend on the scale of the abuse, and how the child was found-out, etc... the details, case to case.

My brother was in a bad spot, smoking Crack and Heroine, and he came to my mother and told her he wanted help to stop. She didn't think twice about putting her arm round him and doing what she could to help. It's a fragile position. In this case, my brother confided in my mother and she needed to show him trust in return for the trust he'd placed in her, but had my mother stumbled upon it and he'd been unwilling to quit, it might have been better to alert some body of authority or experience.

As best they can, I think these things should be kept in house, especially when children are concerned. In a situation where a child is known to be taking illegal substances, as a family I don't think we need external authority unless harm's being caused to to others.

atob wrote:As best they can, I think these things should be kept in house, especially when children are concerned. In a situation where a child is known to be taking illegal substances, as a family I don't think we need external authority unless harm's being caused to to others.

Unfortunately. a lot of the time the parents are the last to realize that their children are on drugs. When everyone who daily sees the kid in question knows he's on heroine except the parents, what do you do about the situation? They may not accept it even if given evidence, also.

I'm not completely sure if I'm still on topic--as this pertains to privacy, I'd say that teens forfeit the right to privacy by living off of their parents' food and shelter.

Tsukatu wrote:You'd only have to resort to violation of privacy if you were a terrible parent to begin with.

i have wpc on my computer.
wpc.
who do they think i am?

my parents could use a computer, but rarely do.

when i get my own laptop, guess what?
they will have the admin account with wpc on it.

privacy is important.

atob wrote:

SlappyMcGee wrote:I wonder if I'd be inclined to tell the authorities.

I'd imagine it would depend on the scale of the abuse, and how the child was found-out, etc... the details, case to case.

My brother was in a bad spot, smoking Crack and Heroine, and he came to my mother and told her he wanted help to stop. She didn't think twice about putting her arm round him and doing what she could to help. It's a fragile position. In this case, my brother confided in my mother and she needed to show him trust in return for the trust he'd placed in her, but had my mother stumbled upon it and he'd been unwilling to quit, it might have been better to alert some body of authority or experience.

As best they can, I think these things should be kept in house, especially when children are concerned. In a situation where a child is known to be taking illegal substances, as a family I don't think we need external authority unless harm's being caused to to others.

Not to make light of a serious matter, but the approach that the website in the OP would take reminds me of a scene in Aqua Teen Hunger Force that I think is relevant enough to mention. At one point in Season 4, Episode 7, Master Shake is in charge of babysitting Meatwad. Meatwad gets into the medicine cabinet and eats all of the pills in it, and he's higher than Jesus by the time Master Shake and Frylock find him. Meatwad is scared and hides in the freezer. Master Shake says something like, "Stand back. This is a very delicate situation, and I know how to handle it. He's very scared right now, and he needs a friend." Then he steps directly up to the freezer with a megaphone and yells "I KNOW YOU ARE ON DRUGS. YOU ARE IN VERY BIG TROUBLE. I AM CALLING THE POLICE RIGHT NOW," all the while leaning further and further into the freezer to be more in Meatwad's face.
...just, y'know, on the subject of handling parenting situations in the most incorrect way possible.

[quote="blackbelmoral"][quote="Tsukatu"]You'd only have to resort to violation of privacy if you were a terrible parent to begin with.[/quote]
i have wpc on my computer.
[b]wpc[/b].
who do they think i am?

my parents could use a computer, but rarely do.

when i get my own laptop, guess what?
[b]they will have the admin account with wpc on it.[/b]

privacy is important.[/quote]
You bring up an interesting topic that is on this same line of thought. Is it justifiable to use a tool like Windows Parental Control to monitor internet usage and etc..? it's really just an extension of the same thing.
It seems that we mostly all agree, though. I'm not terrible surprised, considering the user base here.

Side note: while posting this, I knocked my mouse off of the table, and then hit the keyboard in the process of trying to catch it, and apparently in hitting the keyboard I managed to hit some long forgotten keyboard combo that resulted in selecting the Submit button and then triggering DownThemAll on it. So then I had a half-written post submitted, my mouse dangling off the side of the keyboard tray, and the "your post has been saved" confirmation message saved to my desktop. It was really rather comical. And that's why I edited this post.

jean-luc wrote:Side note: while posting this, I knocked my mouse off of the table, and then hit the keyboard in the process of trying to catch it, and apparently in hitting the keyboard I managed to hit some long forgotten keyboard combo that resulted in selecting the Submit button and then triggering DownThemAll on it. So then I had a half-written post submitted, my mouse dangling off the side of the keyboard tray, and the "your post has been saved" confirmation message saved to my desktop. It was really rather comical. And that's why I edited this post.

I challenge anyone to find a better reason to edit their post than the one you've just said. That's hysterical.

Tsukatu wrote:

jean-luc wrote:Side note: while posting this, I knocked my mouse off of the table, and then hit the keyboard in the process of trying to catch it, and apparently in hitting the keyboard I managed to hit some long forgotten keyboard combo that resulted in selecting the Submit button and then triggering DownThemAll on it. So then I had a half-written post submitted, my mouse dangling off the side of the keyboard tray, and the "your post has been saved" confirmation message saved to my desktop. It was really rather comical. And that's why I edited this post.

I challenge anyone to find a better reason to edit their post than the one you've just said. That's hysterical.

It gets better, too - I apparently watched the thread as well, 'cause it emailed me about your reply. So I must have checked "Notify me when a reply is posted" before triggering DownThemAll on Submit. All in one mouse-drop and keyboard-bang.

Fantastic.

So I also got a little bored. Here's the scene I was talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7rUD7IgRGY

Atilla wrote:Not to mention that things like being sullen and avoiding eye contact are probably directly related to having parents who think they are justified in going through your phone and running a background check on every name they don't recognize, as if they need to pre-approve everyone you talk to.

My parents do that...it's so difficult to go out to parties...they actually call up the parents of the person to make sure that everything is fine. :(

squibbles wrote:My parents do that...it's so difficult to go out to parties...they actually call up the parents of the person to make sure that everything is fine. :(

I don't think that's a problem, necessarily... I mean, I understand them wanting to know where you are if something goes wrong, and wanting to know that there's someone there to render CPR or whatever needs doing. Unless you mean they ring in the middle of the party and say things like "Go check on my kid and make sure he's not doing coke, will you? Can't let him out of my sight for ten minutes." That would just be embarrassing.

Demanding the name of everyone who is going to be at the party, however, is ridiculous. As if you even know that. It's not like the host hands out a list of everyone who will be attending when they invite you.

I agree with Suki and Atilla on pretty much all counts. Also, apparently I exhibit signs of -- oh. I'm lucky to have parents like I do.

So I also got a little bored. Here's the scene I was talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7rUD7IgRGY

Ahahaha, that's beautiful.

blackbelmoral wrote:

Tsukatu wrote:You'd only have to resort to violation of privacy if you were a terrible parent to begin with.

i have wpc on my computer.

-snip-

http://ubuntu.com/

scythe33 wrote:

blackbelmoral wrote:

Tsukatu wrote:You'd only have to resort to violation of privacy if you were a terrible parent to begin with.

i have wpc on my computer.

-snip-

http://ubuntu.com/

http://www.opendns.com/solutions/homenetwork/parental/

rennaT wrote:

scythe33 wrote:

blackbelmoral wrote: i have wpc on my computer.

-snip-

http://ubuntu.com/

http://www.opendns.com/solutions/homenetwork/parental/

This isn't a contest, I just thought it would be hilarious if he installed ubuntu.

Besides, ophcrack.

scythe33 wrote:Besides, ophcrack.

I hate how off-topic this is getting but, man, ophcrack is amazing.

I prefer rcracki and the ridiculously huge tables available at freerainbowtables.net or some obvious URL like that. The distributed table generation and cracking site.

Counterpoint:

If I own a house or am co-owner of a house and there's a possibility that contraband is in one of the rooms in the house that I own, I will that room to ensure that I am not breaking the law. Whether or not some kid claims that room is her own private property isn't of consequence to this homeowner. Should something illegal be in that room, I'm responsible for it.

As for this line:

Suki wrote:You'd only have to resort to violation of privacy if you were a terrible parent to begin with.

Isn't monitoring some of your child's activity also a part of parenting? What makes you a good parent? Is it just setting an example; or does it require receiving feedback to make sure that your parenting is working?

I really don't think searching a kid's room will yield much results. I mean, if you want to get high, your solution is just a small walk away in the medicine cabinet. As I type this, my parents are in the room right next to my kitchen(where my medicine cabinet is), and I could walk into my kitchen, find some cough syrup or Advil or whatever pharmaceuticals could get me high, and I could go to town on them, and they wouldn't even realize it. So for getting high, searching some kid's room is a bit of a waste of time if they're smart. Oh, and I could also grab a bottle of…I forgot what it was, but I could grab something out of the liquor cabinet that my parents never use right now and get drunk, and they'd be oblivious.

When it comes to having the right to search your kid's room… I can't really give an actual opinion. Personally, I would hate it if my parents searched my room because they thought I was getting drunk/high. But I really think it depends on what kind of a person the kid is and what kind of people the parents are. I mean, if the parents are incredibly stressed about anything their kid does, and the kid is just some average teenager, than I'd say they wouldn't have the right. However, if the kid is a drug addict, coming home late, getting bad grades, not listening to their average parents who occasionally cry about what their kid is turning into, I'd say they have the right to search their room. But what that Partnershit for a Drug Free America is saying is that it doesn't matter the circumstances, you need to search your kid's room, and defend your actions, even if you found nothing. That's definitely something that goes against the person's rights.